Dragon Age

You leave my Cole alone! He's happily wandering Thedas with Maryden, spreading happiness to people who're not really sure why they're more happy when he and she have arrived.

I meant as in arquebuses.

Actually, if he's made more human, then I don't think he has that ability anymore...

edited 2nd Dec '16 11:52:28 AM by KarkatTheDalek

The only way that Cole gets to be travelling with Maryden, making people happy, IS if he is made more human. I know this because I just finished Trespasser not long ago, where exactly that scenario played out, and because I have the Dragon Age wiki article open in another tab which says as much as well. Plus my Herald ran into the two of them outside the pub in the Winter Palace where she commented on how cute they looked or something similar.

See here:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Cole

And I quote:

"If Cole is more Human: If Cole was made more Human, it is revealed that he and Maryden have become a couple, and in the end, the two will travel together across Thedas, where Cole and Maryden work together to ease the pain of many people."

They make people happy by doing nice things. Cole can no longer reach in people to make them happy and then make them forget about him. You learn that immediately after making Cole human...

edited 2nd Dec '16 12:22:04 PM by Ghilz

Yes, that is what I meant.

No, he can still help people like he could before, he's just not as good at it. Sometimes he hears things wrong and his abilities aren't as strong as before, but they're not completely gone. Also, he's better able to interpret what he does hear now.

edited 2nd Dec '16 12:24:07 PM by Arha

He still makes people happy. I'm not bothered at the mechanism he uses to do so. All I care about are the results. Which ends up making people happy.

Yes, but you said the people he helped weren't sure why they felt better, so if you were implying that he makes them forget, I was just saying that I don't believe he possesses that ability anymore.

He can still read people's minds, go invisible, and the like. The only ability that is completely gone is his ability to make people forget him.

What does a Spirit of Compassion turn into if they are "Demon-ized"?

Maybe something like Tyranny? A desire to good and help people perverted into a "I'm the only one who knows best" mindset? Such a demon would probably have powerful mind control abilities, sort of an extension of what Cole already has.

edited 2nd Dec '16 12:51:01 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Well the obvious would be cruelty. But seeing as "Wisdom" turns into "Pride", god if I know.

I thought it was Compassion -> Envy? Not just because Envy is right there. Weren't we actually told that at some point?

Wisdom, knowing the right decision to make, turning into Pride, believing you know what's best— I could see that.

edited 2nd Dec '16 2:22:54 PM by Unsung

I actually think that transition makes sense. "Wisdom" suggests a spirit that knows a great deal, and is willing to impart that knowledge to others - therefore, "Pride" would suggest that this vast sum of knowledge made them feel like they were superior to all others (and Pride Demons are known for their intelligence).

Edit: 'd. As for "Compassion -> Envy", I suppose that makes sense, but I think my idea's better, personally.

edited 2nd Dec '16 1:01:05 PM by KarkatTheDalek

What Cole fears is becoming the Nightmare or like he was in, what, Asunder? Those seem like more probable paths to being a demon than Envy or Tyranny.

Tyranny seems more like what you'd get from a spirit like Valor. Or perhaps Command.

edited 2nd Dec '16 1:09:22 PM by Arha

More than one way for wisdom to turn to pride, capitalized or not, I would think.

edited 2nd Dec '16 1:17:30 PM by Unsung

This is all just making me think of Lord of the Rings.

Sauron is a great example of Wisdom turning to Pride, as is Saruman. (as to be expected, they're very similar characters as Tolkien intended) Sauron in particular was probably the most intelligent being in Middle-earth and he thought this fact made him better than everyone else so why couldn't these ignorant fools just accept their superior? Things be so much better if they just let him rule things.

As for Compassion turning to Tyranny, that makes me think of what Gandalf says when Frodo tries to give him the Ring. He'd try to do good and to help but in the end he'd create a worse evil than even Sauron because of those desires. He would force "help" and "goodness" upon everyone whereas Sauron is content just letting everyone be their same old selves so long as they grovel before him.

Also, who know if there's a 1-1 transition of spirits to demons? I mean, yeah, a Wisdom Spirit can become Pride, but who says that all Pride Demons were Wisdom Spirits or all Wisdom Spirits become Pride Demons. There's a lot we don't know about the relationship between Spirits and demons.

For example, I could easily see where a Command Spirit, who wants people to follow their orders, could easily become Prideful.

Or a Spirit of Compassion could be overwhelmed with empathy and become Despair.

Oh, right, I think Solas noted something about Compassion to Despair, didn't he? I forgot Despair demons were a thing.

The DA wiki says that Despair comes from Spirits of Hope, but I can't find a whole ton on what Demon goes to what Spirit anyway so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

Do they have a citation for that?

Despair is Cole's greatest fear, so presumably that's what he would become. But I also think that there isn't a 1-to-1 correlation between spirits and demons. Spirits of Valor or Justice may become Rage demons, but a spirit of Valor seems like it could also become a demon of Fear. A spirit of Purpose may become a Desire demon, but it may also reasonably turn into Envy or Sloth. It isn't just a matter of demons being the opposite of what they were as spirits. They may also become demons if their nature is denied, as with Justice and Anders, or if it is forced to go to an extreme.

Still say the whole mess doesn't make a lot of sense given Trespasser revelations.

What was up with demons back before the Veil was thrown up? And since demons apparently existed before humans and probably elves as well, how were they created?

Solas, when discussing a world without the Veil in the beginning of the game, will "wonder" if demons would even exist in such a world. Remember; demons aren't just motivated by "evil" purposes, but also a desire to see the real world. Or, they are corrupted by the real world. Without the Veil, neither of those are issues.

Since Solas will "wonder" this, he is pretty much saying "before there was the Veil, there were no demons."

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:15:01 PM by SilentColossus