Writing anxieties, Sturgeon's Law, and talent vs effort

Ok so I'm struggling with a common worry for writers. How do you know if you're good enough? And how do you become good? Can you?

Take phenomena like Sturgeon's Law. It seems rather arrogant to assume I'm capable of being one of those rare people who can make it into that top 10%. You need to be born with a certain kind of brain for that. And isn't thinking you can a surefire sign that you can't? Someone posted this on a forum while venting about bad novelists: "If you think you're good enough to write a novel, that means you're not good enough to write a novel."

Yes there's the classic question of talent versus training. Some say writing can be learned. Others, however, say you have to have been a prodigy from a young age, otherwise you might as well give up. There are those who even go so far as to say all creative writing courses are scams. After all, not everyone can be a footballer no matter how hard they train, why is writing any different?

Getting negative feedback, even if it's mixed with positive critique, can be disheartening for this reason. It's meant to be helpful, yes, and I appreciate that. But it raises these doubts: "Is this a sign that I just don't have what it takes? Would a talented writer really need to be told this?"

And writing advice itself is a headache, because there are so many conflicting "rules" out there. For example:

• Avoid said bookisms, they're a form of purple prose. / Never use "said", because there are much better words.
• Make descriptions as rich as possible. / Make descriptions as sparse as possible, if you must have them at all.
• A writer who doesn't kill off most of their cast is a coward. / Don't kill off characters, it cheapens them and is pointlessly depressing.
• Always show, never tell. / Sometimes it's ok to tell if it helps you cut to the more plot-relevant scenes.

ARGH. It just goes to show you can't please everyone. And some people who are displeased will act like the creator is some kind of lesser being and acceptable target. After all, they've just had their time wasted yet again searching for a gem in a sea of crap.

Plus, as has been discussed in several threads on this forum (like the pet peeve tropes one), there are so, so many pitfalls in most every genre. Trying too hard to avoid one can easily mean falling into another.

Has anyone else felt like this? Is it possible to learn and improve, or do you have to have won the genetic lottery? And if it's the former, how do you get rid of impostor syndrome?

Edited by CalicoCaitSith on Jan 11th 2024 at 2:26:40 PM

We all die. The goal isn't to live forever. The goal is to create something that will.

First thing: Writing is not genetic in any way or form. It is a skill and just like with everything else, has to be practiced/experienced... a lot.

Second: No writer starts off writing masterpieces, they all started from scratch and reached their various points of heights through diligence and practice.

Third: People who says that "you shouldn't write a story/ writing courses are scams" are people who are on a rung lower on the ladder than the aspiring writers are. The people who are too lazy to even try writing themselves. People who do try are still better off than those negative-people who doesn't.

Don't get crushed from criticism. Don't "write to please" but "write to enjoy". It's your story that you are writing, not "theirs" and you are the only one who can write it properly, nobody else.

Also, if you do make a mistake, don't feel like it would be the end of the world or anything. Everyone makes mistakes, every day. The best you can do is acknowledge it and learn from the experience before moving on.

Enjoy what you write and while writing it the way you want to write it.

Edited by Trainbarrel on Jan 11th 2024 at 4:32:41 PM

"If there's problems, there's simple solutions."

I will argue that "talent" is a real thing—just not the thing that it's commonly portrayed to be.

As I see it, in video-game terms, "talent" is effectively a multiplier to experience-gain: people with a talent for a particular skill learn that skill more quickly than do other people.

As to whether your work is any good or not at its current stage... really, the main answer that I have there is to give it to other people and see whether they like it. Put it out there and see if it finds an audience.

Regarding Sturgeon's Law, it seems to me that if people were to take that view—that it's unlikely that a given person is in the 10%—then they would in general not write, and we wouldn't get that 10%.

(Also, note that it's not writers that are classified by Sturgeon's Law, but works. This means that even if most of your works fall into the 90%, some others may yet fall into the 10%.)

Turning to the craft itself, I'd argue that—as with all art—seeing the weaknesses of your own work is an important part of writing and improving at writing.

As to all of those "rules"... I'd say that most of what's expressed there comes down to a mixture of writing style, and learning what to do when. And that latter part is, well, part of the skill of writing.

("Show, don't tell" is an important dictum, I do think. Indeed, I'd say that it's the only entry on that list that I'd actually call a "rule". But, as noted, even that rule has exceptions.)

As to the "pet peeve" thread, remember that it's a thread for tropes that annoy the specific people who post them.

The posted tropes aren't necessarily pitfalls in the general sense, and what one person finds to be a "pet peeve" might be appealing to another.

Further, the fact that a trope is a "pet peeve" to someone—or even a number of people—doesn't necessarily make it actually bad.

My Games & Writing

Having that "editor voice" inside of you is normal. In fact I feel like learning to overcome it is a right of passage for anyone who wants to do something creative. Re-reading what you wrote and feeling like it's crap is all just a part of being a writer. I feel like it's how you grow. If you can recognize your flaws, you can work on them. For instance, I know that narrative isn't my strong suit; I'm bad at describing scenery, but it's something I've picked up on and have begun to get better at through practice.

My point is, it's not about whether or not you're just naturally talented and instantly amazing at your writing. It's about not giving up and getting something down on paper to fix later. Don't worry about how good you are — just put your ideas down first. The more you do, the better you'll get.

As for the pet peeve tropes thing, yeah. Those aren't "bad tropes to avoid". They're just things specific users dislike. For instance, I hate Love Triangle, but it's a common trope for a reason — just because I dislike romance drama, that doesn't mean it doesn't sell. It's just more important to hone in on which tropes you dislike, or which tropes may alienate your intended audience.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Amusingly, the following tweet (yes, I'm still calling them "tweets" :P) just now turned up on my timeline:

https://x.com/deadidlegames/status/1745745916995227998?s=20

(Referring to an indie game being worked on by the developer.)

I don't know that it's true of every single artist, but I feel like the idea that "this is normal for artists" carries.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Jan 12th 2024 at 12:36:56 PM

My Games & Writing

Aw thanks everyone. Yeah that's a good way to think of talent - an xp multiplier. If you don't level grind, you don't level up, no matter what advantages you may have.

I used to be part of an online writing community (I'm on hiatus because it's a contest site, and the contests cost money to enter, so saving up to be able to do that again). In general I've received positive feedback, although a recurring piece of constructive criticism is that I don't use enough description, so it can be difficult for readers to ground themselves in the stories. The issue is, I try too hard to avoid the "don't go overboard with description" thing and go too far in the other direction, but am taking people's advice on board and learning to find a reasonable balance.

It's just... There are so many skilled people in these groups, including on this forum, and it's intimidating. It's like I'm staggering along while everyone else is sprinting. And there's this idea in society that trying to do anything if you're not a natural genius makes you some kind of Chuunibyou who can't accept their station in life.

I guess I have a lot of baggage from growing up in an education system that drummed these two beliefs into people's heads:

• Mental faculties are fixed and genetic.
• A person's value is based on said mental faculties.

Yeah. There was little to no official support for anyone who struggled. No disability assistance or anything. Teachers would outright tell people they were stupid and lost causes if they struggled. I remember tutoring students who had difficulties with language classes, and they had such low self-esteem.

Those kinds of toxic messages stay with you. And it doesn't help that they're also common in the writing community.

We all die. The goal isn't to live forever. The goal is to create something that will.

I'm not sure of whether mental faculties are fixed or not—but even if they are, skills are not mental faculties. They're things done using mental faculties.

But I can certainly see the system that you describe incurring some baggage, indeed—I'm really sorry to read that you encountered such! :/

And yeah, being around a bunch of skilled people can be both inspiring and anxiety-inducing.

For what it's worth, I've felt similarly myself, in particular in getting eyes on my games and artwork online when I see friends and peers all around me doing so very well. I celebrate for them, but it's easy to worry that it says something about me or my art.

(And not to some degree, oh, say, the algorithms that drive distribution of posts on a number of social media sites...)

As to description, that can be a tricky balance to strike, I do think!

As to going overboard... eh, I'm not sure that "too much" isn't preferable to "too little". I mean, look at Tolkien, after all!

Either way, I suspect that it's a balance to find with practice and experience!

My Games & Writing

I mean, I also look at my writing in comparison to friends and professionals and feel like I'm not as good. But I'm also just extremely nitpicky about my own work. It's hard not to be. But then you look at the sort of stuff that gets criticized, and so much of it got published and sold despite glaring errors, and you get the sense that you can do better and maybe you're already doing better.

Comparing yourself simply doesn't help, though. The key is to just keep trying. Find your style. Make the stories you're passionate about. Listen to advice but don't butcher your work to make people like it.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I am pretty sure everyone who is capable of running is capable of playing football, will they all reach the professional level? No. Most won't even be the best guy at the pick up game. Practice, especially good practice works for everyone. Sure eventually you might plateau, but you don't know till you have.

Being able to critique and edit your work is important to writing.

As far as writing tips, especially on the Internet, take them with a grain of thought. A lot of online amateur critics have a shallow understanding of the principles behind the tips and fall into the trap of believing in bad tropes.

There is also a lot of focus on things like plot and character, but writing prose is neglected. Actually being able to write good prose is rarer than being able to avoid writing plot holes.

If you specifically want to improve your skill of writing descriptively, then you should look into that specifically. Also analyze the writing of authors that you like, specifically if you like their style of description.

Speaking as an objectively* talented writer (made actual movies, won several contests for my screenplays, starting to get paid; check my forum signature to verify), I can tell you that yes, all writers get both positive and negative feedback. At the professional level, we actively seek out the negative feedback because it helps us peek around our own blind spots and identify what can still be improved.

*Talent isn't objective, but the forum snobs you cite tend to appreciate these metrics.

Echoing what others have said here, most "talent" is really just a little bit of inspiration and a lot of craft. The "craft" part is just a learned skill that gets better with practice and life experience. The "craft" part is also a whole variety of component parts. These broad categories are true for plenty of artforms, but let's stick to examples around writing:

• Technique. This is your grammar, sentence structure, and word choice.
• Substance. This is the plot, the characters, the world. It's also the themes you bring to the story and what you want to say about them.
• Voice. This is how you tell your story. It's also the most nebulous. It's the "look and feel" that's unique to you, that nobody else can really capture. Creator Thumbprint is one element of Voice, but it's bigger than that. One example of voice is how J. R. R. Tolkien spends paragraphs upon paragraphs talking about trees in one chapter and mimicking ancient sagas. Another is how Brandon Sanderson's fantasy worlds feel simultaneously capital-F Fantasy™ but also modern.

Note: These categories are not universal, and other writers will disagree with me about them. Don't take this as Absolute Objective Fact™, just think of it as my interpretation of an incredibly fuzzy concept.

The best writers — and this is true for all artists, but also very much my opinion — are the people who have something to say (about life, about the world, about themselves) that they can't or won't say in plain words, so they use their art to illustrate what they mean. Sometimes they're not even conscious about what they're trying to say, they just know it needs to be said.

But again, that all happens on a whole 'nother level. For now, if you're just starting out, focus on your craft. Get comfortable with yourself. Get lots of practice. The rest will come in time.

One final note: It's always a fine thing to do this as a hobby. No one's forcing you to do this on the professional level. If you're just doing this for you, then any complaints about "bad writing" can be safely thrown out the window because they miss the point. You don't need to have talent to enjoy the process or the result.

Award-winning screenwriter. Directed some movies. Trying to earn a Creator page. I do feedback here.