Literary Superhero Universe

An interesting idea that came to me: essentially a cross between the pre-Disney Star Wars Expanded Universe and the MCU, building up a superhero universe, with individual character/team series and Crisis Crossovers, etc, through books instead of comics. I realize this would be a large undertaking, but apart from that does it seem like a good/workable idea?

Short answer: Probably not, because it didn't work for the comics.

Long answer: maybe if handled right, but it's questionable if it's actually possible to handle it right, partially because superheroes are very much tied to the visual medium, and partially because the moment you get superheroes and a huge universe and crisis crossovers over multiple stories, you start getting continuity issues, and once you've got enough continuity issues, someone's going to come up with the brilliant idea "let's fix those" and then you get things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, which famously did not fix those continuity issues or prune the timelines like the writers were hoping, and instead added a whole new timeline, which DC tried to resolve by doing another Crisis, with the same result. Marvel also struggled with this, and has proceeded to walk into a related but different trap with the MCU.

The main issue really does come back to that superheroes really struggle in the written format. The closest there was was probably the superman radio play, which did fairly well (well enough that it contributed to the ku klux klan becoming seen as criminal and ridiculous) but besides that, there hasn't been much prose superhero stuff for a reason.

It didn't work for the pre-Disney Star Wars expanded universe, either.

That said, I have read prose stories about superheroes (Samit Basu's Turbulence and Resistance) and I am sure that's not the first one, there was a different one about a journalist who discovered her boyfriend was a superhero and cheating on her with another superhero. I forgot the title and author of that one.

But I think...there were economic and branding factors that lead to the push for a collaborative united universe for both these properties. Fans found it all hit-and-miss.

If you have an idea for a setting and a plot, though, who knows who else will get inspired enough to add whatever to it?

I suspect that it's probably possible, but by no means easy.

As mentioned above, superhero media tends to be highly visual. Now, visual elements can be done in text—but it does tend to be at a disadvantage with them.

As to "crisis crossovers", I suspect that the higher demands of reading and the prices of books, as compared to comics and movies, may deter some—it would primarily be serious fans who would follow a crisis crossover in text.

That said, the first might be addressed in part by leaning into the strengths of text.

For example, consider a speedster: one might of course convey some of the—*ahem*—"flash" of them zipping through a city, leaving debris and sparks and a trail of fire in their wake.

But one might also examine the feel of the wind parting before their powers, the feel of the asphalt giving beneath their shoes—with just a moment's sense of liquidity as it melts nanoseconds before they take their next step, the visceral rush of moving at incredible speed, and so on.

As to the second point... well, I do know of at least one literary crossover in the works, if not a superhero one: The Cosmere. That might be worth examining for insight.

I did try to write a comedy superhero story once, and it was okay, but that was also a silly story about teens who split themselves into factions with blatant moral lines and I was writing it for my friends on a website.

In other words, it wasn't really a great story and I quickly lost interest in it. While I still occasionally get the interest to write a superhero related story, it wouldn't be a traditional superhero work — really, just a bunch of people with powers.

So in this regard, does it have to be specifically superheroes? Or could you put a spin on it and make it more akin to fantasy magic while still pulling off the crossover concept?

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 7th 2023 at 4:28:17 AM

Treating it like a comic (several different series, crossovers, etc) is definitely not going to work in a book.

While the latter may not yet have been tested (I'm not sure), the former seems to have extant counter-arguments.

Offhand, there's the aforementioned Cosmere—but there's also arguably the Discworld novels, with their little sub-series following specific characters. As both appear to be popular, it seems that having sub-series can potentially work in text.

The Rick Riordan books also work as multiple smaller sub-series.

the Web Serial Novel format likewise established that a continuous narrative (or at least a very long lasting one) is also possible. With some like Slime Isekai even having spinoffs.

that said the thing to keep in mind is that Marvel and DC's universes were Newer Than They Think, the individual characters predate the crossover aspects and the idea of a share universe only occurred after decades of them being independent settings, stories, status quos and supporting casts. Likewise, while the MCU was teased, the individual movies leading up to the Avengers were likewise independent stories (conversely the Snyderverse failed because they attempted to speedrun the process with Dawn of Justice). For it to work in print, it would be prudent to treat them as separate stories and franchises first, seed in the idea with subtle worldbuilding and crossover stories, and then reveal the true nature after I'd say at least 5 years to a decade's wort of stories with the key players.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Oct 8th 2023 at 7:24:31 AM

You know.

I'm an incompetent hack who only manages to make a living with writing mostly by the power of BS-ing my way through.

So I am not the one to judge story's idea. Not only would it be disrespectful, but also because that would be utterly hypocritical.

But:

No.

Just NO.

Even the fans of Marvel Cinematic Universe, aka THE single most successful superhero universe project in history, are getting steadily sick of it. It's possible, but only in theoretical level that it's in practicality impossible.

It's 2023, not 2013. Enough with this universe thing already.

I think doing superheroes as books is doable. Crossing over Star Wars and Marvel has some problems, mainly lightsabers. Lightsabers are super deadly, but work best in a world with blasters. Superhero combat is usually not deadly and involves flying.

Also what is the point? Marvel has too many characters already and characters that have Jedi like powers. They also tell different types of stories. I suggest making a Jedi Expy Superhero if that is what you are interested in.

Books are also expected to be much longer and have much more content than comic issues. One more reason to not try to force prose franchise to function like a comic franchise.

Edited by Nukeli on Jan 11th 2024 at 12:26:59 PM

But comic books have been successful adapted to film and television although those mediums also tend to be longer and more things happen.

Not always.

Sometimes, yes, but not always.

Besides, the movies/television series only deals with a fraction of the multiverse due to having much more limited time to work with when presenting the story.

Which means that it doesn't end up too much at once to deal with at the time.

Serving itself in "slices" not "cakes".

Comic issues and TV series episodes are a completely different format from novels. Their lenghg would be too little material in anything but a childrens' book and they're much harder to weave into each other, let alone do regular crossovers with. Books are also more expensive than comics.

Different mediums are different mediums for a reason.

Edited by Nukeli on Jan 15th 2024 at 11:52:35 AM

What do you mean "Yes, not always"? It doesn't make sense in context.

My point is that you could adapt a comic book to a novel. A short story would even be easier. Adopting a superhero film would be doable. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a novelization of a superhero movie.

Anyway, there are novels with superheroes in them. So it is proven that it can be done.

Length of source material isn't a problem. Adaptations often involve adding things and fleshing things out.

Edited by ry4n on Jan 15th 2024 at 4:38:33 AM

It does make sense when considering this.

"How many comics-turned-movies exists in total" and " How many of those movies turned out good/awful in the end?"

The answer lies in the success/failure ratio of those movies.

Edited by Trainbarrel on Jan 15th 2024 at 1:41:44 PM

I mean, Surgeon's Law suggests that the answer should be: "90% were bad—just like with any other artform."

As has been mentioned, there are I think examples of superhero novels, so it seems that such can be done.

The big question here, then, I feel, is that of whether a shared universe might be done. (Which was I believe part of the original question: not just whether a superhero novel might be done, but whether a superhero shared universe might be done.)

Indeed, I'd argue that the "superhero" element is perhaps misleading us a bit in this discussion:

A "shared universe" is a big task regardless of genre, I fear. But conversely, I doubt that it's significantly more difficult to do in the superhero genre than, say, the crime thriller genre, or the xenofiction genre, or the hard sci-fi genre, etc.

And—as I think that I said previously—I daresay that it's possible to make a "literary shared universe"—I gather that Brandon Sanderson is working on one—but it's likely not easy.

I already said that specifically a Star Wars x Marvel crossover doesn't work well.

I think the workable version of the original idea is to create a new universe inspired by both Star Wars and early MCU. Similar to how Codex Alera is supposed to be Pokemon meets the Lost Legion.

Looking back at the original post, I don't think that the original poster was suggesting an actual cross-over between those two specific properties, but rather something in the vein of the two. Something that works in a manner inspired by the manner in which they work.

(That said, I do think that such a crossover could work, if the elements were handled well.

You mentioned light-sabers and blasters; part of the point of the work might be whatever disparities might be found—or, conversely, supers with blaster-like powers might be chosen on the side opposing the Force-wielders, for example.)

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Jan 15th 2024 at 9:45:11 PM