The Barbie (2023 film) cleanup thread

Wanted to get input on the Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse entry I did cause I'm certain it counts but then again I could be wrong... (obviously it's spoilered on the page itself)

Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse: Barbie at first has reservations about fully enacting the countercoup against the Kens, acknowledging that she did play a part in all this (a point the rest of the Barbies would later concede). Gloria responds that even if it's true, he still brainwashed her friends, took over her home, and is planning to make his patriarchal rule permanent. This fully convinces her to carry the plan out. Barbie herself, while she does apologize for taking him for granted, would tell Ken that establishing the patriarchy isn't okay, especially after learning Ken himself still felt unhappy.

On a related note, I saw someone mentioning this and since we're cleaning it up, is this valid? Even if it's a "childish understanding" of patriarchy, it's still patriarchy. Plus I feel it ignores how the Barbies are forced to live this way when they (to my knowledge) didn't even mistreat the Kens and other miscellaneous dolls too much.

Do Not Do This Cool Thing: The film condemns patriarchial values, which are shown to not even help men. Even in "Kendom", Beach Ken still has insecurities about his self-worth. However, Kendom still has its strong aesthetic with its horse Mount Rushmore, frat-bro parties, and Ken's very fun to say "Mojo Dojo Casa House". Not to mention the Kens flipped their discrimination, which can be seen as somewhat cathartic. It also helps that Kendom is the Kens' childish understanding of what patriarchy is, coming across more like a frat house rather than anything more insidious, divorcing it from real-life misogyny.

The first one is a misuse. Second one, I'm not sure about.

The Do Not Do This Cool Thing feels like Misaimed Fandom, and originally had yet even more "Barbies were happier enslaved".

I think most of the DNDTCT entry makes sense because the frat bro life does have its own aesthetic appeal, but the sentence about the patriarchy and "catharsis" could be cut as it's just Misaimed Fandom — it doesn't look glamorized unless you want women to be oppressed, which is um, not really a take that the narrative supports at all. (I know the Kendom is more analogous to real-world misogyny than any idea of "misandry," but women don't find it cathartic and I haven't even seen many men who think the Stepford stuff was a good thing.)

See I KNEW it was some kind of misuse or something. I’ll erase it.

Does anyone think we can lock edits on say the YMMV page and some of the other pages so examples like these aren't added again?

I don't think it's gotten contentious enough to necessitate a lock (yet?).

I would say when the edit wars are repeated and persistent over a decently long period of time or when people start taking it super personally.

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 23rd 2023 at 3:02:09 PM

When exactly does a page constitute as contentious enough?

Yeah, with all the stuff that already got deleted, I'd say it's pretty contentious.

We're probably past the worst of that, though. The rush to add things to a new page has died down a little.

I noticed on the Cleanup of Complaining sandbox that the entry for this film claims it has an Esoteric Happy Ending, but I checked the aforementioned section for Live-Action films and didn't see anything. I think it should be deleted if it ever ends up on the YMMV page or if it's already on there.

Edited by FirstAidRules on Aug 24th 2023 at 7:07:58 AM

On a related note, someone put a Harsher in Hindsight entry on the YMMV page for "Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy". Posted here since it ALSO has EHE in it:

The main plot of the episode is that Lisa's favorite doll (which is an Expy of Barbie) reinforces negative gender stereotypes, causing her to push for a more progressive alternative. It seems like her efforts are going to be successful, until the company unveil a new doll that draws attention away from Lisa's doll. Though Lisa is content that at least one girl bought her doll, this is unfortunately an Esoteric Happy Ending, since nowhere near enough people bought her doll to turn a profit. Then came the 2023 Barbie movie, which, despite releasing nearly 30 years after this episode, featured a very contentious take on gender issues (including some that are explored in this episode) that concluded in an Esoteric Happy Ending that makes the ending in this episode seem like an unambiguously happy ending by comparison.

"a very contentious take on gender issues" when all the movie said patriarchy sucks for men too.

Yeah, it's why the Esoteric Happy Ending claim doesn't work for me.

Esoteric Happy Ending was added as per the Unintentionally Unsympathetic thread cleanup, where it was deemed acceptable to stay (people kept adding the ending to Unintentionally Sympathetic for the Kens or Unintentionally Unsympathetic for the Barbies). We decided Esoteric Happy Ending was a better place to address the Kens still having no rights and being homeless despite the ending being "happy".

Edited by PhiSat on Aug 24th 2023 at 4:26:16 AM

The Malibu Stacy episode had an intentional Bittersweet Ending, so Esoteric Happy Ending doesn't apply. The entry's claims don't make sense for either The Simpsons episode nor the Barbie movie.

Edited by UchuuFlamenco on Aug 24th 2023 at 3:50:25 AM

1. The Barbies do admit that they should have treated the Kens better and actually make progress towards it by giving them lower court positions (and the narrator says that they're going to rise through the ranks overtime). And besides, they took over their society and brainwashed them. They won't be fully gungho about giving them a high-ranking position either way.

2. The Kens were never stated to be homeless. Barbie just didn't know where they lived, there's a big difference.

Edited by Jobyrdthegamerbyrd on Aug 24th 2023 at 4:59:02 AM

Yeeeeaaaaaah, if the film flat out admits that Barbie doesn't know where the Kens go and the film ends with the Kens being given lower court positions and they're going to rise through the ranks, it is not an Esoteric Happy Ending by any means.

I think maybe we should make it clear that Barbie doesn't know where the Kens live (like in Real Life) and people think it means that the Kens are homeless despite the film never saying that.

Agreed. We could stick that under Common Knowledge?

Edited by Paradoxic on Aug 25th 2023 at 8:17:05 PM

I'm in

Ditto

Thirding

Draft for entry:

"At one point if the film, when asked where the Kens live, Barbie couldn't give a straight answer, admitting she doesn't know. The fandom quickly took this to mean that the Kens are homeless despite the film never saying or implying so."