CG for short
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Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
the Retromancer
I wanted to not limit it to AI because a mess caused grammar plugins or editing scripts are grounds for immediate suspension and has a similar use with chatbots.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Those are sort of different issues, though. A plug-in just finds "errors" and spits out corrections (or changes words on its own). An AI writing tool produces "original" content.
Both should be mentioned on the page, but not lumped together.
Edited by WarJay77 on May 3rd 2023 at 5:23:41 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
That's fair.
It could be a broad "software and editing" section, covering
- Scripts and text replacement plugins - bad, will get you suspended
- proofreading help - you can use grammar correction software if you're not confident in your English, but note that these things aren't infallible and you'll still be responsible for mistakes
- AI: insert above, very much fallible and you'll still be responsible for mistakes
reconsidering
Basically, the overall rule is "Your Account, Your Responsibility". These are all just explanations of ways it might play out
The way I see it, there are too many things that could go sideways to permit any significant usage of text-generating artificial intelligences for TV Tropes. Besides, the website is meant for the enjoyment of human consumers of media, so permitting robots to have their way with it is ill-advised nonsense.
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the Retromancer
I admit that I don't have many concrete ideas on what exactly could go wrong, but this risks degrading the natural character of TV Tropes, when all of the writing that humans are charged with is taken over by half-competent machines.
Edited by Lapsem on May 4th 2023 at 10:41:58 AM
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the Retromancer
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Either way, nobody was arguing that we all start using AI. At most people just wanted to know what the rules were.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I've just heard stories of online newswriters put out of a job by ChatGPT and don't want anything like it to happen here. Forgive me if my words seem not as well put-together as you'd like.
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Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Believe me, I know. I'm a freelance writer and I just had an entire week of no work because we needed a new contract because a coworker used AI to write their stuff. So I'm no fan of AI writing.
But it's already been demonstrated that TVT is too complex for an AI to handle if it's anything more complex than the most well known tropes and stories, and that tropers who use it would still be punished if things go wrong.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
As much as "oh no, robots take our jobs" topic is interesting, I don't see it being an issue for TV Tropes in the near future, maybe next year or two.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
What happens then?
the Retromancer
AI get better and it'd be worth reevaluating how they may interact with the site.
Edited by Amonimus on May 4th 2023 at 9:48:44 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
reconsidering
At any rate, we don't really have a concrete way to prevent them from being used. They generate entirely new text, so it can't be caught as plagiarized, and while there are some patterns to the generated text, none of them are 100% reliable. It would be pretty unfair to ban someone for having a similar writing style to an AI.
If someone were trying to make trope pages using a text generator directly, they would be full of errors and have incorrect formatting, which is banworthy on its own. So I don't really see the value of adding a new rule here
Edited by Tremmor19 on May 5th 2023 at 3:18:13 PM
So maybe just add a handy link to Text-Formatting Rules to the draft above.
Artificial Intelligence
Language models don't actually "know" crucial things like trope definitions or the text of works, and will confidently assert patent nonsense if you ask them to write based on information outside their dataset, nor do they understand our Text-Formatting Rules. If you're considering consulting an AI tool to help write your examples or pages, bear in mind that you are still ultimately responsible for your edits, including any flaws introduced by AI.
Otaku
Can I add my opinion on the AI policy?
Artificial Intelligence
AI-based language models are not self-aware or actually intelligent. They are a programs that generate text by drawing information from the collective intelligence of humans stored in the datasets within servers.Thus, AI-based language models are not aware of crucial things like trope definitions or the text of works, and will confidently assert patent nonsense if you ask them to write based on information outside their dataset, nor do they understand our Text-Formatting Rules.
If you're considering consulting an AI tool to help write your examples or pages, bear in mind that you are still ultimately responsible for your edits, including any flaws introduced by AI.
reconsidering
Honestly adding the first bit feels like its getting unnecessarily ... philosophical, for a policy page. Like, you can debate the meaning of "AI" or "understanding" all day but our concern is that current models demonstrably are not able to format trope pages correctly or provide accurate trope examples, and will mess up the wiki if used for that.
Edited by Tremmor19 on May 7th 2023 at 3:08:25 PM
How about this for a first draft:
Artificial Intelligence
Language models don't actually "know" crucial things like trope definitions or the text of works, and will confidently assert patent nonsense if you ask them to write based on information outside their dataset. If you're considering consulting an AI tool to help write your examples or pages, bear in mind that you are still ultimately responsible for your edits, including any flaws introduced by AI. Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.