Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Jogo
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The rewrite looks good.
Also I like the El Sueño rewrite Beast.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Also, I thought we were supposed to wait two weeks after a candidate makes a new appearance before updating any information about them, to not spoil anyone who wants to play the game.
Anyways, keep Volo as this seems to be a Dissidia situation where the crossover references events from canon but is not itself canon to the original games.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Rewrite of Dr. Meridian, El Sueno and Aion. Great job guys!
Forgo: Honestly, I think it would be better if we just made it clear that it subverts them. They really suit him, he just ended up completely throwing away his concern for Veronica. As the Agent noted, he made it clear that he wanted only HE to survive. It's clear that he doesn't care what happens to Veronica.
A total has-been.
Re:Volo. Looking more into the new ‘’Masters EX’’ content for new information, I found there’s actually some strong implication that Volo actually uses Togepi to keep himself in good spirits and to make his customers happy as well, so it could be that his kind treatment of Togepi is a means to a self-serving end and that he doesn’t love Togepi the same way she loves him. Even so, this Volo still can’t qualify due to the Go-Karting with Bowser thing that disqualifies all of this games variants of villains, but original Volo can definitely remain a keep for as long as he doesn’t reappear in another core game that mitigates his evilness.
Edited by ANewMan on Mar 29th 2024 at 12:15:56 PM
I'd say Legends Arceus Volo is worth keeping an eye on especially for whoever does Legends ZA and if Volo appears in that game. As for Masters EX, we still have several villains from Masters EX that haven't been taken down so I don't see why we should change our stance with Volo. We should treat Masters like we treat Fire Emblem Heroes where examples stay in their original games despite getting redeeming qualities in Heroes. I COULD see Volo being redeemed and subsequently removed if Love Redeems in ZA and he's shown to be a good father to Cynthia's great great Grandparent. Honestly, if all it took was appearing in a crossover with GKWB to remove villains, Ridley and by extension any Monster that appears in Smash Brothers would have to be removed.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 29th 2024 at 2:46:38 AM
Even if Masters was canon..."love for Pokémon" is apparently a topic that Volo ironically dislikes or doesn't care about in Masters (certain trainers hate certain topics) and some dialog implies that he takes care of them well as a means to observe their behavior and make them strong. Take that as you will, but again, it's not canon.
The Ultimate Lifeform
That definitely sounds like Pragmatic Villainy and nothing more, so even if it was canon I don't think it would warrant a cut.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Rewrites to Drafts please.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
By the way, I just launched Evil Malthusian, so that could probably apply to a few keepers.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I questioned Kaguro from Kekkaishi, but nobody had a rebuttal. Does that mean he should be removed?
On a related note, there is another entry I find questionable, which is Yomitsu Horai and Eric Nishijima from Darker than Black. Their entry seems to imply that they want to kill all Contractors out of Fantastic Racism. However, this just isn't true, as the real reason they want to kill them is because they deem them as a threat to humanity, which they are, as Amber's end goal is to wipe out the population of Japan. This is evident in this exchange:
Eric Nishijima: So we should spare the lives of a few thousand while they take the lives of over a hundred million people?
This makes it pretty clear that they're Well Intentioned Extremists who are prioritizing The Needs of the Many. Just because people prefer Amber doesn't mean they can excuse her actions while condemning the other side as monsters.
Edited by JoeDevaney29 on Mar 30th 2024 at 9:51:39 AM
They are absolutely prejudiced against Contractors... who they also use at their own convenience. I'm not sure where the accusation of painting Amber in a positive light while demonizing them is coming from but I disagree with taking their words at face value when the characters behave as bigoted, paranoid and treacherous murderers.
Yeah, plenty of genocidally racist characters act like they're just trying to "protect their people" when they're just racist, that sounds like empty rhetoric to me
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Well, maybe someone should rewrite the entry to make that clearer.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think the entry I did for them is fine as is and don't understand what's unclear about it.
If it's in reference to noting their BS rhetoric I can work that in and I'll take it as an excuse to trim them a bit:
- Public Security Bureau Director Yoshimitsu Horai and PANDORA official Eric Nishijima are secretly high-ranking members of the sinister Syndicate. Overseeing the coverup missions assigned to their assassination teams, the Director and Nishijima regularly order witnesses to Contractor activity silenced, and have their own followers killed the moment they risk exposure for the organization. Constructing the Saturn Ring to destroy Heaven's Gate—which empowers the Contractors—the two then lure a Contractor terrorist group to Tokyo to stir up chaos and justify their genocide as being for the good of humanity, and when their plan is foiled, the Director murders Nishijima to cover up the incident and escape consequences.
Also I don't recall the point you raised on Kaguro but if people didn't respond that probably means they missed it and I suggest linking back to your argument or restating it, we work by votes here and the absence of a response doesn't mean a cut should be done.
Edited by PassingThrough on Mar 30th 2024 at 1:10:07 PM
It doesn't mention them claiming to protect Japan. That's what's unclear.
As for the argument I made about Kaguro, here's the link: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16706336400A42573900&page=511
I'm curious to hear about the villain's reaction. You've got a heroic character sympathizing with them—or at least assuming they can infer sympathy—but heroes frequently give undo care towards villains and I'd like to know Kaguro's response or facial expression, etc. when he hears that.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Double check, alone I don’t think that’s enough to cut on when he could just be surprised to hear that.
Edited by PassingThrough on Mar 30th 2024 at 1:19:46 PM
IIRC, he was taken aback for a second. It's been years since I watched the series, however.
ACW:Please add. I was just about to ask about this.
The wifi here sucks
The link int he image caption for the Ultraverse is leading to a domain error for me.
That one works. IDK why the actual one doesn't.
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 30th 2024 at 9:58:35 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
A total has-been.
@Satoshi Bakura: That was what I was getting at with Volo in Masters EX, though nice catch with the “love of Pokémon” topic not enthusing him.
To re-clarify, regardless of whether or not Volo’s an Adaptational Nice Guy here compared to his canon counterpart, no villain in Masters EX can qualify for this trope due to how Go-Karting with Bowser is a staple there, meaning there is nothing any of them could do in-game that’d be bad enough to disallow you from using them in your teams for battles. Original canon Volo, however, still keeps.
Edited by ANewMan on Mar 30th 2024 at 9:22:53 AM
Quick adjustment for an old one of mine.
For the sake of keeping his name at the front I wanna just include the year of the anime in the title like we normally do. While I'm at it I think I can make the last sentence sound cooler:
Also updated A God Am I to Godhood Seeker (I don't think the latter was a trope when I originally did him).
Thoughts?