Poor Image: Ho Yay.The Ghost And Molly Mc Gee

This thread ruled on changing the previous page image to the current image. However having watched the show it really shouldn't have an image, (at least not the one that is currently up there). The current image is literally a single in-between frame. In the scene in question Andrea is TALKING to Molly about her love of horror movies. It also came right after Andrea who was live streaming laughed at Molly for how she looked. The current image is a single frame of the shape that lips take when saying an "oo" sound, which is not at all an intentional "kissy" face that this thread decided the image was. It was only on screen for 1 second and would not be noticeable otherwise, and was literally taken out of context. While many subtextual things are taken out of context, one single frame, is not enough to interpret a strong enough subtext. Especially when considering all other Ho Yay pages are images of scenes deliberately planned/animated/acted to look the way they do, with majority of them being shots that were actually on screen for more than 1 frame. To add to this 1) Molly is far closer with Libby they are actually friends that are very sweet with each other, and has asked her to hang out on multiple occasions. 2) Molly and Andrea two don't get along a lot and Molly has tried sabotaging Andrea multiple times, and has never asked her to hang out. 3) Many other HoYay pages have used pages of people holding hands, hugging, and gently looking at each other so the argument that a kissy face means more than a smile or cuddle isn't consistent 4) the current page image can easily be taken the wrong way how the characters are interacting with each other, compared to say joyful cuddling. 5) the argument that the previous image, which was a screenshot of the show, was fanart is hypocritical as so is the current image. 6) many other Ho Yay pages don't have images.

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 6th 2022 at 4:53:40 AM

~Willbyr, please change the thread title to HoYay.The Ghost And Molly Mc Gee.

I don't think any of those arguments for pulling hold water.

If you need mod assistance, hollering is better than pinging a specific mod. Fixed the title.

Keep. None of those are good reasons for pulling.

Edited by Tylerbear12 on Oct 2nd 2022 at 3:38:27 AM

Keep.

Keep.

Yeah, keep.

Keep.

Except Molly doesn't look comfortable in the current page image, and she has far more gay subtext with Libby. The current image can easily be interpreted as someone forcing themself on someone as well, which is not the message a Ho Yay page should send. Libby is so close with Molly that she can know when something is off about her, and has taken care of her on multiple occasions, plus Molly asks Libby multiple times to come hang with her and not Andrea when she wants to spend time with a friend.

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 2nd 2022 at 3:04:47 PM

Also around 90% of the Ho Yay page is interactions between Libby and Molly, who actually have a close wholesome and caring relationship. Which is something Molly and Andrea do not as they don't really interact with each other and Molly isn't as touchy close with Andrea as she is with Libby, plus Molly has never asked or gone to hang out with Andrea once in the show. A thread about homosexual subtext would be better to have stuff that is actually wholesome and not antagonistic, because that can send the wrong message about homosexual relationships.

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 2nd 2022 at 3:31:41 PM

Lot to unpack here. Ho Yay is (a) YMMV, so you don't have to agree with other people's interpretations of their relationship and (b) unintentional — if she actually has gay subtext with another character, that relationship can't be Ho Yay, but rather Homoerotic Subtext or some other Queer as Tropes. Further, (c) Foe Yay Shipping is a thing; just because two characters have an acrimonious relationship doesn't mean folks can't read into it and (d) people are voting Keep Until Better Image Suggested. Again, that's Until Better Image Suggested — if you have a better image, by all means show it, but the thread is currently not leaning towards pulling without a replacement.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 2nd 2022 at 2:23:45 PM

Again it doesn't really matter who she has more unintentional subtext with. It's about the best image that shows unintentional subtext. Plus Foe Yay Shipping is a thing for a reason.

That said you could suggest a new one that portrays unintentional subtext better.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 2nd 2022 at 2:26:43 PM

I will definitely suggest an image to change the current page image to. That being said I don't know how to upload images on TV Tropes, as in haven't been able to figure that out yet.

Forgot to mention the image it's literally ONE in-between frame. Andrea is TALKING to Molly about her love horror movies. Anyone can take a SINGE FRAME of the shape the lips taking when making an "oo" sound and take it out of context to look like a kissy face. It's literally over in less than a second, that's not enough to interpret as romantic subtext unless it's taken out of context. Someone just took a single frame of a Andrea simply talking to Molly, and took it out of context because it looks like a kissy face. You want an actual Ho Yay image? Then look for a scene that was deliberately storyboarded to look the way it does, and stays in that pose for a significant amount of time.

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 3rd 2022 at 10:17:10 AM

Proposing several images to replace the current image as it is literally ONE in-between frame. 1) Molly holding Libby's hand during the latter's bat mitzvah. 2) Molly somberly looking over◊ a picture frame of Libby when she was singing a whole song about not wanting to lose or hurt her. 3) the look◊ Molly gives Libby as she listens to her recite poetry. 4) this scene with heart shaped◊ contrail in the sky as Molly promises Libby she will give her a night to remember. 5) This scene of Molly lifting up Libby◊ as the two embraced during the season finale. edit: I couldn't find any good images of the two laying beside each other during the finale.

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 2nd 2022 at 11:48:59 AM

Hey, uh, ArcticGrill, I think I would've preferred it if you described the issue about the current image being a one-frame thing in your own words, instead of just copying a paragraph of my post over on Tumblr.

Anyway, uploading an image should be easy enough: When editing a page, there's an "upload image" button right next to the "cancel/back" button:

After clicking on that button you get a new window box. Click the center of it to choose an image (or drag 'n drop an image into it), click "submit", then copy the code, and paste it into the article. When uploaded this way, it comes automatically formatted with a frame floating on the right, a width of 350 pixels, and a separate caption code with the same width (and a placeholder caption: "some caption text").

Anyway, yeah, my main issue with the current page image for this page is not necessarily because of the ship being "toxic" or me preferring a different ship (I mean, I do prefer Molibby over Mollandrea, but that's really beside the point). My issue is the fact that it's literally a single inbetween frame of Andrea talking to Molly, one where it is very easy to pull a kissy face out of a set of talking frames because that's the kind of shape your lips make when you make an "oo" sound. It's a bit manipulative, and perhaps a bit too out of context.

Looking at other Ho Yay pages, many of them are of prolonged shots or prolonged images, making them fairly easy to notice. Since Andrea's kissy face is actually one frame of her talking, it's fairly easy to miss, it's almost unnoticeable. And even when it is noticed, it's still one single frame of someone talking. No one should be able to get homoerotic subtext out of a single frame when the rest of the frames are completely different.

The five examples that ArcticGrill provides in the post directly above my previous one make for much better page images than what we currently have, as they aren't one-frame wonders like the "kissy-face-during-talking". Images #1, #2◊ and #4◊ are prolonged shots that were intentionally storyboarded this way, thus one would very easily interpret homoerotic subtext out of these (although #2 gets quickly panned to the left, but Molly still stays in that position). Image #3◊ may have a similar issue of using an inbetween frame of Molly blinking, but in context, she's still looking with much awe and adoration to Libby. Image #5◊ may also be an inbetween frame, but in context, Molly is holding Libby as they twirl around before the former tightly hugs the latter, all in Molly's excitement. These make for better examples than the image we currently have. If I had to choose between these five images, I would personally go with #2 or #4, but #5 is also good, and #1 and #3 are fine.

If you guys necessarily need a Mollandrea-implicit image on the Ho Yay page, please pick something that isn't just a single frame out of someone talking...

Here are the linked images at wikisize.

Out of the images here. 18.1=18.5>18.4>18.3>18.2

Edited by Tylerbear12 on Oct 3rd 2022 at 3:58:56 AM

18.1 is the best. I should note that I don't care if current's one between frame but I prefer 18.1. because it looks nicer in my opinion.

Edit: I meant 18.1 not 1.1.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 3rd 2022 at 4:14:30 AM

18.1 (I think means the first image?) definitely a good change, especially when you take into consideration that the current image comes literally right after Andrea laughed at Molly for how she looked. Can someone explain what 18.1=18.5>18.4>18.3>18.2 means? What does the 18 mean? W Hat does the .1 .2 & .4 mean?

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 5th 2022 at 4:55:32 AM

1.1, which is actually 18.1, is good enough for me.

It means 18.1 and 18.5 are equally preferred and preferred over all the others, and the others are listed in descending order of preference. We commonly use math notation like this to show order of preference.

I also agree with 18.1 being the best option for changing the current image. Now that I know 18.1 means first image. Does a mod have to agree with the 18.1 change or???

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 5th 2022 at 4:57:44 AM

I do agree with Arend that images for a Ho Yay page are better off being images intentionally storyboared/acted to look they way they do, rather than a single blink and you'll miss it in-between frame, as those can be deliberately used out of context in a manipulative way. Currently all other Ho Yay page images were taken from shots/images, that were deliberately planned/animated/acted to look they way they did, with most of them being prolonged shots. As that seems to be the current standard that all other Ho Yay pages abide to. (I'm saying this after looking through 30+ other Ho Yay pages). What is a crowner, and why is it better to edit old posts on a thread than make another? Do people actually go back on a thread to see if anything has changed?

Edited by ArcticGrill on Oct 6th 2022 at 4:57:37 AM

You can edit your posts to add to it in instead of continually making new posts. Because at this point you are just making multiple posts saying the same thing. Which makes the conversation hard to follow.

Anyways is it time for a crowner or do we need to wait longer.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 5th 2022 at 4:53:49 AM