Project Thread Community Issues

Sorry. I forgot what happend last time.

Sorry to bump this but as the OP of this thread, I think that this thread can be locked. We've hit a standstill and no one knows what to do here. I'd have hollered to do it but I don't know if the mods feel like it should be shut yet.

There's no reason to lock the thread, things like this are helpful when problems do arise. Actually, there's been a lot of talks about cleanup thread tropers being unnecessarily rude in edit reasons and too short-handed on the cleanup threads themselves; I suggested people discuss it here but nobody has yet. There's issues to tackle, so there's no point in locking this just because it went inactive for a bit.

Ah ok. Couldn’t tell from the tone of the last few posts but if there’s a reason to keep this, then we will keep it.

As long as we're talking: anybody notice that using shorthand for certain types of misuse in cleanup threads often works to the detriment of the cleanup thread? It's like the equivalent of Trope Decay.

First it was "actor garbage" being thrown around on Hindsight, which was interpreted as rude and unclear by those not involved in the thread, and now I'm seeing "plot happens" thrown around on Surprisingly Realistic Outcome's thread, which is way too vague a criticism and is used to describe a lot of misuse — and even some valid examples.

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 1st 2021 at 7:13:38 AM

"Plot happens" used to be used to describe "this is just the plot progressing, not something realistic", but now it's just kind of... There.

I think this is the thread to address my problems with some of the cleanup threads so here it is:

The complaining cleanup thread has a serious problem with mistaking completely valid criticisms on a work page as "stealth complaining". I think something like this came up when High Guardian Spice was brung up on the thread, but I didn't say anything because I didn't know how.

The way I see it, saying "X was recieved very poorly" and listing its flaws in a neutral manner is fine, but constant "DAE WORK X BAD" and offhand comments about how bad it is is bad.

It depends on where those examples are. They are fine on YMMV, but not on mainspace.

I have noticed that with certain works some people get really sensitive about critical YMMV examples, including memes, which on one hand I get because it's hard to read criticisms about something you love and not wind up feeling defensive, but at the same time, if those criticisms are common (and if the meme is indeed a meme)... then, eh?

Sometimes it goes back to the whole "this opinion is WRONG" mindset, where people argue that other fans shouldn't believe something because of X, Y and Z, when really it's just talking about an emotional reaction, good or bad, logical or not.

Bumping to say yes, that's absolutely a problem. I feel like some tropers just assume documenting any negative fan opinions in YMMV is wrong or against the site's rules, when it's more how they're framed that's the issue. For example, I very much disagree with many critical Steven Universe opinions about how it handled certain characters (most infamously the Diamonds) but I don't see any problems with featuring them on the YMMV page, since it is still a part of its history.

EDIT: It's also been a problem in general as media has become a central part of people's identities, so any criticism feels like an attack on themselves. I know I've done that in my lesser moments.

Edited by harryhenry on Oct 13th 2022 at 12:25:26 PM

Tone is everything when it comes to critical examples. You can describe a negative opinion on YMMV without editorializing.

It especially sucks when cleaning up critical opinions, because people's takes seem to be less about what counts as "reputable" in general and more about their personal beef with that particular critic, which is ironically just a recipe for allowing personal feelings to sway editing.