Fallout: The Amazon Series

My thoughts are definitely that they were planning to start the war themselves, but lost control of the situation somewhere. That's why in Fallout 4 they were still signing people up at the last minute, and here Barb didn't have her daughter with her. Maybe the Chinese started it, maybe America did, maybe someone in Vault-Tec leaned on the wrong button. But it would fit the theme of how they thought they could profit off of ending the world only for it to fall out from under them.

Think someone else beat them to it?

I'll say with Vault-Tec starting the nuke war, I'm pretty sure that they did it. However, I will say it probably would have happened even if they hadn't.

Yeah, the way the meeting was worded, it was definitely a case of the bombs are gonna drop anyway, so lets at least do it on our terms and when we can be prepared.

Edited by king15 on May 4th 2024 at 9:44:35 AM

I went through the show a second time, this time with a movie-buff friend of mine (He's played 3 and 4, but his knowledge is otherwise casual). The show has its flaws sure (I stand by my statement that the show's tone could be upped a little next season; especially after the re-watch), but it's still very good for what it is. Norm's my favorite character by-and-far, with The Ghoul right behind him.

I found myself appreciating Norm way more than I expected to. Maybe it helped that I like Charisma builds and he came the closest to apeing that? (Sure, The Ghoul has a charm to him but mah boi Norm knows what to say) He's also stoic without veering into edgy, which I appreciate. His actor plays him fantastically.

Maximus is the only character I just couldn't like; not a bad concept or anything - His Running Gag of constantly indirectly backstabbing everybody VIA impulsiveness/being in the wrong place just got so grating I couldn't sympathize anymore. I get that disconnect's sorta the point, but they drive it into the ground. Hoping he'll have more redeeming moments next season.

Edited by klom99 on May 7th 2024 at 2:57:01 PM

I don't agree, the suggestion is made directly in response to someone asking 'what if the bombs don't drop?' Which certainly suggests that's a possibility. Now, to be fair, we don't actually know if they ended up doing it, but it's certainly not presented as a contingency plan (e.g. there's no 'if it doesn't happen by the time sales slow X%').

Good point. Could be a bit of both, a contingency if the bombs don't drop, and an assurance that, regardless of whether the drops would have dropped, it will be on Vault-Tec's terms.

Edited by king15 on May 7th 2024 at 4:02:36 PM

There's an insane logic there that the people at the table would rather see the world nuked than lose money they're investing on the promise of nuclear war.

https://twitter.com/CT_Phipps/status/1787934860532723742

Oh, I did a video review with a fellow post-apocalypse author.

Just finished the series over this last week and overall enjoyed it. I've never played the games, so this is essentially my first experience of the Fallout setting, but I've had enough indirect exposure (courtesy of TVT) that I e.g. recognised Mr. House by his moustache and picked up on the metahumour of "thou shall get sidetracked by bullshit every goddamned time". I missed a lot of other references, though.

A couple of thoughts:

• About Vault-Tec: I don't mind the idea that Vault-Tec actually did drop the first bomb; that tracks with their motivations from what I know of them, and the criticism that destroying their market is unprofitable is obviously short-sighted. (Actually, I'm surprised that the Vault experiments being avant-garde social darwinism is a controversial twist - I thought I already learned that from pop-cultural osmosis, why would it be more surprising to actual fans?) I mind a lot more the implication that they're still around and controlling everything in any meaningful fashion - that's a level of conspiratorial thinking and mythologising villainy that I've gotten really weary of in fiction, so I did groan when the Ghoul commented about "someone is always at the wheel." But I didn't actually see a lot of practical indication that they are - the triple Vault discovered and destroyed Shady Sands on its own, Bud didn't seem to be coordinating with anyone beyond the original plan, Vault 4 remains thriving and unmanaged. It's basically just the questions of where the nuke Hank used on Shady Sands came from and why he's escaping to New Vegas (and it doesn't make sense to me why he'd do that if their destructions were related).
  • On a related note, there are two layers of hypocritical nonsense in Vault-Tec's ideology - first, the amount of speechifying about destroying all sources of conflict as though that's a new and separate activity from the unchanging nature of war, and second, doing so while actively plotting to put the different companies and their vaults in competition with each other for supremacy. I'm not sure if I was supposed to laugh at the characters' reasoning, or if the creators themselves didn't realise - the scene was so dramatic I couldn't tell if it was also meant to be comically serious.
• About the Brotherhood of Steel: I haven't noticed anyone mention this, but something that stood out to me was that very nearly everyone in the Brotherhood, essentially other than Dane, has a notably Latinate name. Has that been part of their characterisation before? Because what it suggests to me, along with the social norms and rituals like neck branding, is that Caesar's Legion left a lasting mark across the culture of the region - whether that's because the show is canonising an ending where the Legion won, or simply because it successfully replaced so many other cultures that survivors of its collapse retained its practices and then joined and influenced the modern Brotherhood. I imagine the Brotherhood would have a certain appeal to former legionnaires, as another faction driven by romanticising and recreating a long-past era of history.

The BOS was founded as a knightly/monastic order. I can't remember if the show picked up on this, but the Brotherhood has ranks such as Paladin, Scribe, Elder, etc, that denote this. IIRC, most of the BOS people you meet in the games have "regular" names like Santangelo, Ramos, Lyon, Maxson, etc. I don't recall latin names being used much.

About Vaultec, we're currently in an era of worsening economic times and this is largely blamed on the excesses of corporations and the ultra rich at the expense of everyone else. This is meant to reflect that. The absurdity of causing a war for short sighted profit margins is satirical (it reminds me of Dr. Strangelove). When the series was first developed in the late 90s, corporate conspiracies was de rigueur with shows like The X Files being very popular.

I also suggested earlier that I am skeptical that the people from vault-tec would still control the vaults politically. To me it seems that it happens just because the plot says so.

Same, but the thing that doesn't fit to me is "show" doesn't seem to align with "tell". We don't see anything that can only be explained if Bud still reports to some higher authority. We do see things that imply such an authority doesn't exist (namely, they'd be aware that Vault 4 went rogue and would do something to stop them harbouring refugees from Vault-Tec's own massacre). Ockham's razor, therefore, says Vault-Tec doesn't have control of the vaults.

Nevertheless, the Ghoul says it does, and Lucy believes him despite seeing all the same evidence the audience did.

Not really my question? I understand the real-world subtext. I just feel like I was supposed to perceive the conspiracy as murderously brilliant, when to me it's obvious that they're murderously foolish.

I'll say in fairness that I think Vault-Tec and Enclave are very much the stuff of conspiracy theory fiction. In fact, I suspect they're playing it as slightly intentionally silly.

I took that as part of the horror. A bunch of idiots are shooting themselves in the foot while yelling about how clever they are. It would be hilarious if they weren't killing everyone else in the process.

Likewise, the Vault experiments have been canon for quite a while now, though this is the first time it was explicitly stated "let's try to create a perfect society and compete to see who is right." It doesn't contradict anything, really, since Vault-Tec is explicitly giving a lot of free reign here. Maybe the tri-Vault experiment was an honest attempt to create the perfect society, but the super mutant Vault (which was mentioned) was just a cruel way to get soldiers; the super mutants were never intended to inherit the society they fought and died for.

Yeah, while I get (even if I disagree with) the arguments that it undermines some of the series' themes and is a bit of an asspull in regards to the Vault-Tec leadership still controlling the vaults (or at least having had control of the vaults at some point), the idea of them starting the war and having a central leadership controlling all the vaults makes a lot of sense when you bare in mind the experiments: there must have been an end goal.

RE: The BOS and Legion.

A bunch of people have also noticed that the Brotherhood's banners seem to be flying the Legion's colors of Red and Gold, the same shade of Red no less. This despite the Brotherhood usually using Blues and Greys to rep themselves. Combined with the oddly high number of Roman/Latin names there's a pretty common theory over on Fallout Reddit that the Mojave/California Brotherhood chapter has a large number of Legionnaires in their ranks. How or why is not explained, if it ain't all a coincidence.

If there's one thing the show does poorly, it's explaining its setting.

For anyone coming into the franchise through the show like Noaq, I recommend the youtube channels Shoddycast and maybe Oxhorn for their in-depth and immersive explanations on the series and major elements.

Edited by Spirit on May 11th 2024 at 6:41:47 AM

There's a caveat to all conspiracy theory that if you're suggesting the Far Right in the government or corporations or both are doing something evil, then they're almost certainly doing it in RL.

Like if I said that the President of the United States attempted to team up with white supremacist militias to overthrow Democracy.

Or if United States corporations deliberately covered up the massive toxicity of plastic while funding environmentalist movements that did nothing to actually address the problem.

Or faked a war in Iraq for revenge and oil.

"If there's one thing the show does poorly, it's explaining its setting."

As someone who watched this show with 2 people unfamiliar with the show, and 1 person unfamiliar with the West Coast side of it, they could follow the show well. I kept asking them if there was anything they wanted me to explain, but they didn't need me to. Though I do agree the intricacies of the setting aren't really explained, like who the Enclave are or the specifics of the Brotherhood ranking, I don't think that's an issue at this point: if they become more relevant in future seasons, then it will probably be explained..

With the Brotherhood ranking, it's not helped by the fact that the west coast and east coast Brotherhood have different ranking systems.

Yeah, I watched it with my dad, and he didn't have any trouble keeping up. I kept asking if he needed clarification, and he was fine. The only thing I ended up explaining was the "stuck in the 50s" thing, and even that didn't actually confuse him.

5

>"RE: The BOS and Legion. A bunch of people have also noticed that the Brotherhood's banners seem to be flying the Legion's colors of Red and Gold, the same shade of Red no less. This despite the Brotherhood usually using Blues and Greys to rep themselves. Combined with the oddly high number of Roman/Latin names there's a pretty common theory over on Fallout Reddit that the Mojave/California Brotherhood chapter has a large number of Legionnaires in their ranks. How or why is not explained, if it ain't all a coincidence."

I have seen this to, but the names and how much more religious they seem now come across as a stronger hint than the colors per say

Cause pretty sure the flag in the show atleast is the same orange and white from FO 4 Arthurs Bo S. Didnt notice much red and gold in the show, however..? Thats the scribe outfits from 3 and NV isnt it? Those were red and gold?

And the Outcasts used Red, and Arthur brought them back in after 3

But it seems a bit much to fully be a coincidence so it may likely be a shoutout if nothing else.

Edited by Hatchets on May 12th 2024 at 7:33:59 PM

The Scribe and Elder outfits are all the same as they've always been, but this picture does show that their banner does match the Legion's color scheme.

I mean, it's not like it's the first time the Brotherhood changed colors on some of their stuff, but taken in consideration with other tidbits means it's not impossible there's some kind of connection between them at this point.

The Brotherhood of Steel is a Knightly Order, and I think it's very in-character for them to use a lot of random Latin names. I wouldn't read too far into that.

I'm sure the Legion will be in Season 2.

Their government depends on Caesar, and since he has probably been dead for 14 years, I don't see how he could continue to exist.