Fairy Tale Setting Vs. High Fantasy Setting

I've been thinking (somewhat aimlessly) about the fantasy genre today, and how some of its sub-genres can differ radically despite sharing a pool of fairly specific tropes. My question is, where exactly is the line between the typical fairy tale setting and the Standard Fantasy Setting?

Both have castles, royals, talking animals, imaginary creatures like dragons and unicorns, magic, wizards, etc., but you'd never mistake one for the other, even if the tone of the story is somewhat similar (for example: The Hobbit and Frozen).

I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I'm interested in what you have to say. All things being equal, how could one describe a fairy tale setting so that it couldn't be mistaken for a high fantasy setting, or vice versa? What is it that makes Rivendell definitely a fantasy setting and Florin definitely a fairy tale setting, besides the pointy ears?

Fairy tale came from fantasy, myth, and legend, Fairy tale setting are mostly about existing fairy tale but different.

The thing is you already know about what fairy tales are, and they usually have moral or try to have moral, and fairy tales are somewhat more iconic since you might not know a lot about orcs, trolls, ents or what not, but most people know the shit out of little red riding hood.

Fairy tales are not always about fantasy, but there are some element here and there.

Edited by Andermann on Apr 12th 2019 at 2:15:11 AM

Fairy Tales and the Standard Fantasy Setting are characterized by different tropes. Fairy tales make use of thematic devices that summarize magical relationships quickly- "rule of three" for example. A fairy tale setting will emphasize surrealistic, almost dreamlike plot elements which make most sense on an emotional level. In a standard fantasy setting, there are magical creatures, and often magic spells, but their actions and relationships tend to be much more realistic. If elves and dwarves existed in our world, they would act more or less like they do in Lord of the Rings, given the circumstances they are confronted with.

Of course, there are works that subvert or invert the standard tropes in both types of setting.

But that all has to do with the way the story is told. I'm talking about features of the setting itself. For example, I think one of the reasons Disenchantment largely failed is that it kept vacillating between high fantasy motifs and fairy tale motifs. Every critic picked up on it. And yet, I cannot for the life of me point out where the line is between the two.

I keep thinking of Shrek as a good example of an unambiguous fairy tale setting, but if it weren't for all the cameos of fairy tale characters like Cinderella and the Big Bad Wolf, it would probably just read as a "funny fantasy" a la Discworld. How could one write a setting that's instantly recognizable as "fairy tale" without them?

I think you are looking for something that doesnt exist, as the high fantasy setting was directly derived from mythology and folklore, and any line between the two would by necessity be mostly arbitrary.

Shrek is a fairy tale because it uses fairy tale storytelling devices like rescuing a princess from a dragon and having the aforementioned princess turn into an ogre and live happily ever after.

It's a pretty interesting question, and I think that most hard distinctions you could try to point out would probably have plenty of examples in both camps (for example, standard fantasies could certainly have princesses rescued by dragons who turns into an ogre and they live happily ever after, it would just be framed differently). I think the different genres' identities are defined by a collection of different tropes that when assembled together comprise a certain genre, and because those tropes can always be swapped and interchanged between those genres, and because they often are, the line is often vague. But we can tend to tell 'Tangled is a fairy tale but Eragon is high fantasy' because we subconsciously recognise the tropes that each genre tends to use, even if it would take some time and effort to actually go and make a list of which tropes tend to define the two genres. Disenchanted did use a liberal amount of both 'pools' of tropes and as such felt like it had a bit of an identity crisis.

If you'd try to list some of the differences, I'd say that fairy tale settings tend to emulate the actual fairy tales by having rather simple plots that concentrate on one character's fate and struggles, and usually fairly simple motivations. Young woman seeks love (usually in the form of a dashing prince that will save her from her undesirable position), a young man wants to find his fortune and/or love, or there's some kind of simple inciting incident that causes a fairly straightforward quest. Magic *tends* to be soft, and will create many plot points in themselves. High fantasy tend to have more world-threatening premises, and that world will be more fleshed out with regards to different realms, political systems, races, magic systems, histories and so on. Characters tend to be more complex (not necessarily by much) and there either won't be a traditional quest, or will be more of travelogue where the hero meets numerous companions who might well have their own quests or arcs - you're likely to see more battles in general and magic will tend to be harder and have less impact on plot points.

Ahh, I think you found one answer to the OP's question: Fantasy settings are more detailed than Fairy Tale settings, and more consistent in term of the background details. In a Fairy Tale, unless the protagonist interacts with it, it basically doesn't exist. The economy, for example. You will never see peasants in a fairy tale, unless the protagonist or a secondary character is one, and even then you will never see them farming. Professions exist, but only as plot devices. The architecture is never mentioned, and nearly every building is either a cottage or a castle. This pattern fits the type of story that is being told, of course, so the type and nature of the setting follows directly from which story-telling tropes are in effect.

Yeah, peasants only exist to fill the 'rags' slot in a Rags to Riches story in a Fairy Tale. Otherwise, the genre is wonderfully unconcerned with anything that doesn't have immediate relevance to the plot, which adds to the otherwordly feel of such stories. It's telling that the original high fantasy creator, Tolkien, was an avid world-builder - arguably a world-builder before a writer - and that is probably the starkest contrast between the genres.

Even modern Fairy Tale stories like Once Upon a Time (which has a lot more world-building done than the works that inspired it) is pretty vague on a lot of details, whereas (to compare a TV show of epic fantasy) in Game Of Thrones those details are very often plot-critical points.