General Isekai Thread

I very rarely make an attempt to defend anything wholesale. I'll elaborate and correct points made here (as in TV tropes as a whole) but I don't treat anything I enjoy as high art. I'm a huge fan of action series (manga, anime, manwha, or manhua) and 99% of those are pure junk food. It'd be pretty dumb if I pretended otherwise lol.

If I had to be hyper critical of every piece of media I watch/read that has some part of it I'd normally be morally against I'd turn into even more of a bitter, cynical asshole who doesn't enjoy a single piece of media ever.

It's bare minimum of thought, just that much won't magically make you cynical. Like I don't hold everything to high critical standards, I do not regard shield hero and Mushoku to the same lens as redo, I don't regard the average bland villainess affair to the same lens as I would shlocky josei hentai. It's really quite easy honestly!

Edited by Mami on Apr 23rd 2024 at 1:44:12 PM

I don't know why we should reserve critique for "high art". Half the fun of watching stuff, at least in my opinion, is analyzing and dissecting how their respective stories are put together. Whether it's battle shonen made for teens, sappy shojo romances, or boilerplate isekai, there's always something to chew on.

The handling of slavery across various isekai and adjacent titles is a legitimately interesting topic. I'm glad that How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom has been referenced, as it's one of the rare instances of a main character who's actually against the practice of slavery and is actively working to dismantle it.

Edited by fillerdude on Apr 23rd 2024 at 5:50:43 AM

I mean if you want my actual opinion on the subject I think the slavery in isekai thing is stupid, overdone, and needs to stop. Its a tired trope. When I say I shut my brain off to enjoy something that's clear junk food/trash it doesn't mean I don't actually acknowledge the faults with a thing or think they're a problem. I just don't like having arguments on the internet over it because its literally not worth it. "Idk I just shut my brain off lol" is my general response to try and avoid exactly this situation where I have to sit and defend my opinion on something. Which is what actually stresses me out.

Edited by Silentedge89 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:00:31 AM

It's not exactly "hyper critical" to point out that slavery being downplayed and romanticized in media is kind of fucked.

Oh yeah absolutely. My statement was a general one. It doesn't just apply to this instance. Though as I said above. I kind of just use it so I don't have to engage and let other people do the discussion instead. Cause let me tell you, I'm ass at debating and its kind of stressful for me anyway. Unless I somehow stumble into the magical unicorn discussion where somehow, someway, someone in it hasn't already expressed the same opinion I have in a more erudite manner. Then I kinda have no choice but to start debating.

Edited by Silentedge89 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:26:42 AM

I think TV Tropes is the kind of place where you should expect pushback if you say "I just turn my brain off" in response to critique of certain aspects of media. Like now I understand what your thoughts are on the matter, but in general the statement "I just turn my brain off lol" reads as 1) dismissive of criticism, positive or negative and 2) non-conducive for discussion as it explicitly promotes non-thinking.

If you don't want to engage, just don't... engage.

Edited by fillerdude on Apr 23rd 2024 at 6:24:35 AM

Yeah, in general I don't like "the villain is the hero and the hero is the villain" stories (especially ones where everyone still hates the "villain" and loves the "hero" for some inexplicable reason), with villainess otome stories usually just being that with extra steps. I can sometimes accept it if the heroine is also reincarnated, and the reason she's a villain is because she's an entitled bitch who has genuine reason to think the world revolves around her. But mostly, I don't like that kind of character no matter the justification.

Honestly it mostly annoys me because of how omnipresent it is. Pick a different plot or setting, why is everyone and their mum so obsessed with this premise when it barely exists outside of these stories. The closest I've ever gotten to a game with that vibe was Hana Awase where a character who starts out as a prissy bully and dies a tragic death in one game is actually really nice and helpful so long as you're not involved with the object of her affections in the other and even then I kind of doubt any of these authors have ever played the game.

The problem is very few of these types of stories actually really use the trope well.

Usually it's just there to signal the MC being an underdog who has to work to change how people perceive them but things always go so easily for them that you wonder what the point was.

Plus the hero/heroine character are almost always presented badly to gin up sympathy for the MC.

The villainess story has become so common there's a whole anthology revolving around it.

@fillerdude

If I recall, both Death March to a Parallel World and Tensei Slime also have protagonists who actually DO something about the slavery(or equivalent in the case of Tensei Slime) so it really isn't/shouldn't be a high bar to clear. There was a diagram about this that I'll post when I find it.

@Mami

Yeah I started noticing this treand to make the villainess into the "greatest person evah" and the heroine into "that evil bitch Stacy" and started losing interest in a lot of them that use that tired angle. It actually makes Bakarina stand out all that more since it actually avoids those since Katarina while nice, is not academically or magically gifted at all and Maria really is a sweet heart.

The only "villainess stories" I've read are all part of the yuri genre, but I've certainly enjoyed seeing how some authors try to put their spin on the thing.

One of the more unique takes I've seen is a manhua called Omega Heroine Wants Her Alpha Villainess, which combines the "reincarnate as a villainess" trope with the omegaverse genre, of all things.

While it isn't exactly a "villainess story," The Magical Revolution of the Reincarnated Princess uses the classic "villainess gets denounced" scene as a way to introduce the protagonist's eventual love interest, and I still find it funny that the "heroine-type character" in that story is a blood-sucking monster who still ends up as one of the sweetest characters in the story.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:03:00 AM

It's such a shame that it's become the common cliche in villainess stories, too. Even more so when the big shocker in the story is that, surprise, it turns out the villainess was the Chosen One all along.

I usually pick ones where the villainess just goes off the rails pretty quick and does her own thing or it's clear that she isn't evil at all and just troubled("The Villainess Wants to Marry a Commoner" and another where the villainess becomes a nun in a coven selling food stuffs for the first and "I'm not even and NPC in this Otome game" for the latter). There were also some travelogue ones I gotta get back into as well as find this other one about a lady being isekai'd and getting a marked symbol of power by a sketchy deity guy, but being content to live in the outskirts of the city in her little inn. They weren't villainess ones though.

Agreee. The Chosen One thing isn't AS BAD if the prophecy is vague enough, but it really grates on me when the "heroine" is portrayed as selfish entitled bitch either because she's another reincarnated or simply just because. It's the same laziness you see in a bunch of male oriented isekai where the MC gets betrayed "because".

Edited by doomrider7 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:18:02 AM

Let's be honest, given how the slaves are usually cute girls, the inclusion of slavery is mostly to facilitate the author's barely disguised slaveplay kink. Which, YMMV for how fucked that is, but I can at least respect an MC that actually does something about slavery and/or a story that at least acknowledges that the slavery is there for kinky purposes. I never got far into Death March but I can respect its MC because from what I know he actually does do something about slavery. And while slaveplay isn't my kink I can respect that How Not to Summon a Demon Lord at least acknowledges that the slavery on the part of the main trio is mostly there for kink purposes and that (one of) the MC's stated goal(s) at least is to free the girls who are enslaved to him.

Edited by Chariot on Apr 23rd 2024 at 9:35:42 AM

Agreed on all counts thought I imagine it's also a revenge fantasy angle. Also, I found the isekai slavery diagram.

Oh, the number of revenge fantasy isekai out there... I'm still pissed at Redo of a Healer for having an interesting magic system and world and just being revenge porn.

If I recall, the author of that was off-put and disturbed to find out that the anime had a pretty big female following/viewership.

x3 Okay, that diagram made me laugh. Definitely saving that image.

To be fair, that diagram forgets the option of "Yes, the protagonist owns slaves, but he's also explicitly an evil scumbag." Overlord, for example.

Maybe the person who did the diagram figured that it was covered by "Does the MC attempt to free them? Immediately?" since scumbag protagonists probably don't try to free their slaves immediately?

Since I don't think anyone is watching it anyway (I'm not) I went and looked up Re:Monster's OP and its pretty shit too. So it can't even be redeemed by having a pretty ok opening.

I feel like it's fairly well-known these days that there's a sizable female audience that's into that kinda stuff?

Every time people are suprised that women can also have fetishes, my reaction is pretty much "well, DUH".

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Apr 24th 2024 at 11:21:18 AM

What the hell is a Redo of Healer?