Needs Help: Bury Your Gays

I'd prefer the second image, then. The first one implies that the trope itself has died, rather than the subject of it.

TLP created: Gay Guy Dies First

Should we create a crowner to vote on moving the Sandbox.Bury Your Gays text to the main page, unless there's any more input?

Gay Guy Dies First launched.

Shouldn't Bury Your Gays have an index or list of its sub-tropes?

The sandbox does

Hi, posting again because I just heard a radio podcast that uses a definition we might want to borrow: "if a queer character dies and it's homophobic or stereotyped, it's Bury Your Gays. If a queer character dies when anyone else could have died in their place, it's Bury Your Gays. And, if a queer character dies and it's not part of their own storyline, it's Bury Your Gays." I heard that last one and a light bulb appeared, because that's all the examples where it feels wrong but doesn't fit the criteria we've already covered.

Edited by lakingsif on Aug 21st 2018 at 1:01:14 AM

Out of the Closet, Into the Fire has been made.

• "if a queer character dies and it's homophobic or stereotyped, it's Bury Your Gays." (I like)
• "If a queer character dies when anyone else could have died in their place, it's Bury Your Gays." (I think I see what you mean, but I need to squint to do so. This definition sounds like "any time a noncis character dies")
• "And, if a queer character dies and it's not part of their own storyline, it's Bury Your Gays." (Love it; it gets that "stuffed in the fridge" feeling)

That "definition" is really vague, tbh. The first part is too general to be particularly helpful. "It's homophobic or stereotyped" is general. The second part just sounds like complaining, but it could either be "spurious character death" or "Character Death" + complaining. The third part could be "side character dies" + complaining" or it could be "Stuffed in the Fridge but LGBT," "Disposable Woman but LGBT," or "Collateral Angst but LGBT." Each of those three points could have any number of meanings.

Edit: nevermind.

Edited by naturalironist on Oct 4th 2018 at 2:08:27 PM

1. "If a queer character dies and it's homophobic or stereotyped, it's Bury Your Gays."

This is honestly what the trope should be.

2. "If a queer character dies when anyone else could have died in their place, it's Bury Your Gays."

I know what you are getting at and its badly thought out. Cause with a decent writer any character could of died in someone else place and cause some of the intended effects to happen in some form. Some parts would inverabily change yes but you could still get the same beats.

This also forgets the writing worlds one and only truth. Everything is a plot device and trope and serves to push the story as a whole further.

3. "And, if a queer character dies and it's not part of their own storyline, it's Bury Your Gays."

Badish. Sometimes characters get bad ends to push other people's storyline and character growth. Kamina (or you could make a case Yoko would of had a similar effect) had to die for Simon to reach his potential and get that raw determination to make a Mech as big as the universe. Otherwise he would of clung to Kamina's bravado as he was doing. Fridging is only an issue when there's not real reason for it. IE: Someone gets killed to force the MC into the final battle and its never really talked about again or effects how the characters acts again. Basically its the difference between Spider-Man (Gwen Stacey still gets referenced and the way he saves people changed because of it and Uncle Ben everything) and Batman (As Bruce Wayne Bats still continues Martha and Thomas's endeavors to help Gotham and then puts on his fursuit to beat up criminals. This incident also helped make him one of the best heroes to help out kids in really bad situations and that fact is used constantly.) vs John Stewart (Wife killed for no real reason other because and its not really brought up again)

Once again everything is a plot device/trope that is meant to push the story further. That includes a characters storyline ending soon then you would like. Though that is moot if they get revealed to be gay and killed off soon after, barring some circumstances life if the profession they are in, beyond being a hero, would have a mortality rate, like being a soldier during wartime.

Edited by RunicRunic on Oct 10th 2018 at 7:32:36 AM

From the mixed responses to that suggestion, and taking into account that the current Sandbox was well-received, I think we should probably quickly move on to discuss whether to keep recent edits made to the main page description (for whatever reason) before the clock is up, then put the sandbox into main.

I think the sandbox looks pretty good, and once that gets swapped in we should be done here.

My only concern is that the laconic description for Tragic Aids Story misrepresents the trope. While "AIDS is a punishment for being gay" is certainly a narrative that was pushed by some people, I wouldn't say it's the typical message of most of the trope.

How about that becomes "A plotline involving the miseries of HIV/AIDS, often starring gay men, sometimes treated like a punishment for homosexuality"?

Sure. Seems good to go!

I'll change it and then swap the sandbox into main

That sandboxed description is very lengthy. I suggest cutting it down and moving some to Analysis.

I’ll see what I can do

Merry Christmas etc. The current sandbox has been updated, shortened a little. ~Fighteer and Septimus Heap should I update the main page?

Honestly the second paragraph feels wholly unnecessary except for the last bit, as it contradicts the next paragraph. People die in stories and unless its a cast full of gays, the cast would be mostly be a few stated straight and cis, maybe a couple of stated LGBT, and the rest left unspecified. That last bit is what lead to the everyone is Bi mindset that filled the fanfiction and fanart of the 90's and early 00's, and gave us a lot of good fancontent. It also leads back to the same exact potential of the misuse we were seeing before.

The last paragraph feels like natter and blathering, especially with the thesis link is in it. That's more of a trope example type thing than something belonging in a description. Especially since its just a thesis, one that looks to be well argued and written. Remember a Thesis isn't necessarily this is Absolute Fact, Its more "This is what I believe and here is why." Its the academic equivalent of an opinion piece, which can eventually lead to a full on study and research paper.

I thought I'd removed the thesis with the other links (there were a lot in that paragraph). Though, the paragraph isn't claiming the thesis as Fact, just as some further reading - more appropriate in Analysis. Edited sandbox further.