Japanese Storytelling in Video Games

Could you at least summarize the video for those who can't be bothered to watch it?

I skipped to the 10-minute mark and he referenced one of the anime he watched as The Seven Deadly Sins, having been told multiple times that he watched a bad anime.

I'm too lame to watch it all the way through but I assume that Seven Deadly Sins is one of his talking points for Japanese storytelling then he's probably shored up in the recent 2010's wave of poorly-written light novel adaptions and highly marketable, cookie-cutter action games with no soul in them and mostly T&A.

If he's stuck in the T&A, pretentiously symbolic side of Japanese fiction then I guess he's stuck there. It's kind of it's own landmass.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

Well that was pointless and whiny.

He should actually play and watch a variety of games and shows instead of the mainstream crap where the plot is largely an excuse.

edited 17th Jun '17 7:28:29 AM by Memers

@L Dragon 2: Dude, we've asked you multiple times in other threads that bringing up dissenting opinions in other threads annoys people and doesn't bring anything to the table.

Starting a thread based on it is very close to being a complaint thread.

Watch Symphogear

Well he's not totally wrong, Japan does rely a bit too much on fanservice in most of their mainstream anime/manga products these days, and at some point or another it will begin to affect the overall opinion of the industry.

To contrast, the West is finally beginning to receive some respect and recognition towards cartoons and videogames as being works of art with great depth and detail, with names such as Avatar the Last Airbender, Spec Ops: The Line, Life is Strange, Samurai Jack often being cited of how far the industry as whole has come. Granted, those 'greats' are easily countered by the hordes of cookie-cutter modern FPS shooters and overly crude Adult Swim cartoon shorts that are just riding certain trendy cash-cows, but at least those titles are impactful enough to react beyond their own fields and affect others.

But in Japan? Yeah, some franchises do end up having a greater impact than the rest, such as Naruto, Guren Lagann, Final Fantasy, or Nie R, but notice how they often end up more serialized in the long term than most Western counterparts? Or how fanservice is often thrown into works when it has little logical reason to exist (ex Quiet's outfit and it's weak excuse in MGSV, the YORH As maid outfit from Nie R: Automata)? That sort of stuff does NOT help Japan's case, and only makes it harder for the rare work that does avert all of those tropes to stand out from the crowd and gain recognition.

Complaint thread is complaint thread.

Where there's life, there's hope.

I do think there might be value in the concept of the thread, if it had a different first post.

Like, Dark Souls 1 was originally only dubbed in English, even in Japan. So, every character had a unique laugh in order to be similar to kabuki stock sounds, so that Japanese audiences could understand and infer what was going on.

Things like that are genuinely interesting. I think.

Before we can even discuss whether Japanese or "western" stories are better, worse, or whatever, we have to establish what the differences are and what that might mean.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:15:01 AM by unnoun

That isnt a problem with "story telling" so much as it is a problem with costuming. And it also applies to guys as well as the girls and I would say its a worse problem in the west since it applies more to guys than girls.

And I would say that the whole 'Japanese story telling" thing is a huge, unnecessary, and negative generalization. There are plenty of works out there that are extremely unique. I dare everyone to play the The Legend Of Heroes Trails In The Sky and come back here then we debate .

edited 17th Jun '17 9:12:23 AM by Memers

Male power fantasy =/= sex object. But whatever.

Like.

I will say that somehow I think Japanese developers would be more likely to give me the dick physics I have always wanted.

On the other hand, Saints Row is the only game I can think of that provides a dick slider in character creation.

Agreed

edited 17th Jun '17 9:18:38 AM by TheAirman

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They

I mean, fair enough, but I still don't think male and female objectification in video games will be truly equal until we have as many man thongs as string bikinis and as many instances of dick physics as breast physics.

And, like. The guys need to not look like gross ass.

Kratos is textbook of the power fantasy vs sex object thing. Frank Miller comics too. Liefeld. Guys that are muscular and wear skintight stuff or go shirtless, but look like ass. The girls all have big tits and are conventionally good looking and unthreatening and feminine and wear skin tight stuff.

It shows a difference in priorities.

I struggle to picture anyone that would want to fuck Kratos's roidraging ass. He's definitely a straight male power fantasy, but. I literally can't imagine him being anyone's sexual fantasy.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:35:53 AM by unnoun

Well there are a number of laws that would prevent that. Also Breasts =/ Dicks, Dicks = Vaginas and most games do not allow either.

Breast physics pretty much equal a Walking Shirtless Scene.

"look like ass" is subjective, Kratos has a huge female following even more so now with the new one.

But again none of this is 'story telling' its just character design.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:35:59 AM by Memers

Bullshit he does. That's a lie, and you're lying. I refuse to believe any being finds Kratos sexually attractive, anyone that says they do isn't real or is making it up for attention.

And dicks are floppy sometimes. And react to physics. Vaginas don't really quite.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:40:23 AM by unnoun

You would be surprised how much Kratos Yaoi and Bara exists... He is the perfect tortured guy to be broken into an Uke.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:46:40 AM by Memers

Uh there is a trope called karvakova man where someone is considered sexually attractive even if they aren't attractive in the traditional way.

No surprise Kratos fits that, he has that very ruggedness look especially now that he has a beard & Hell he seems to be doing a decent job raising a son so he's even good father material.

There's also that.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:45:10 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I mean, the father thing I could buy, maybe, I guess, but. Up to that point. Until now he's been nothing but dull power fantasy.

I mean, the thing is he's not even different enough to be Ugly Cute though. I definitely get why someone could find appeal in someone unconventionally attractive but. Not Kratos.

And, like, he doesn't even look like he'd make a good bara though either. He doesn't have great facial features. Or any features.

Like, I basically can only picture him as a permanent walking scowl.

edited 17th Jun '17 9:53:13 AM by unnoun

A shirtless scene can be played for fan service, but they aren't as nearly as often as a many works will play bouncing breasts for the same.

Shao Kahn from Mortal Kombat might be wearing little, but he's ugly as sin and is absolutely not intended to be attractive in any way, to men or women. Prior to X toning it down, female characters from same series like Sonya Blade, a special forces lieutenant, were dressed closer to a military themed stripper than what her job would inform.

This isn't to say that fan service is bad - I think a fan service filled character design can be used for characterization and even storytelling at times, such as the case for the character Mileena - but in Sonya's it was purely titillation and very much out of character to have her dressed that way.

edited 17th Jun '17 10:10:41 AM by Hashil

I mean, part of it is stuff like Beauty Is Never Tarnished.

Like. Battle-damaged male characters can look appealing sexually but there's still a strength to them.

That never happens with female characters, or if it does it goes too far into the other direction and victimizes them.

If a man takes his shirt off, it can have a lot of meanings and impacts.

Noticeable breast physics are sort of more of a specific thing.

edited 17th Jun '17 10:10:15 AM by unnoun

This thread is about storytelling, not character design.

Where there's life, there's hope.

They go hand in hand sometimes. Sonya Blade is supposed to be a no-nonsense Special Forces officer, but the way she's dressed in most Mortal Kombats does not inform this at all and weakens the storytelling and her characterization as a result.

Contrarily, I think it helps Bayonetta's case for being a sexual, but extremely powerful witch. It's in character for her and says more about her as a person than exposition and dialogue ever could.

Fan service's place in a work is all in how it's utilized, and unfortunately a lot of Japanese works still utilize it strictly for titillation, even when they want to claim otherwise.

edited 17th Jun '17 10:32:47 AM by Hashil

The worst for me is usually comes when they try to create ridiculous in-story justifications for it that just feel stupidly contrived, when it's obvious what the real reason was. See: Quiet.

It just comes across as dishonest or unnecessary. Just be upfront.

edited 17th Jun '17 10:44:24 AM by Draghinazzo

That kind of stuff is more Willing Suspension of Disbelief. If it were real life a Breast Plate wouldn't exist and such, same for a lot of other male and female fanservice tropes in inappropriate in real life situations.

Its hardly Japanese exclusive at all.

At least when it comes to things other than Quiet, that was just plain bad.

It all depends on what you would define as strength and how you are viewing them. As well as it entirely depends on the example.

---

Again can we go back to actual story telling, I mean there are several valid criticisms that can be levied at many Japanese works like many characters end up a little too tropey.

edited 17th Jun '17 11:21:20 AM by Memers