ContraPoints

We're not burying our heads in the sand and ignoring these assholes. We just refuse to treat them as anything but the hateful assholes they have shown themselves to be through their words and actions. To do otherwise would be to normalize them.

You need a degreed of humanization or you risk to see then as borderline monster that cant be beaten, sometimes I feel we are projecting a level of competency they dont really have.

No we don't see them as invincible monsters. Just bigoted assholes. Which is what they are.

Never humanize Nazis. Ever.

Really?, Because the way some people speak, they some like some form of corruption that can conver people, never lost a conversation and so own, it feel we are dealing less with bigoted asshole and more like the corruption like some damn videogame.

I don't see what competency has to do with anything. I'm not gonna pal around with people that don't even think I deserve to live. Period.

What is so hard to understand about this?

edited 24th Mar '18 12:28:05 PM by PhysicalStamina

Why are you so quick to dismiss any possible threat they might pose?

This.

edited 24th Mar '18 12:28:31 PM by M84

I don't think "humanisation" is the right word in this context - they ARE humans, which is what makes their behaviour so disgusting.

There's a difference between humanising somebody and being sympathetic to them. You can humanise a person while still thinking they're a piece of shit.

edited 24th Mar '18 12:29:29 PM by DrunkenNordmann

There's acknowledging that they are still human beings and then there's actually getting chummy with them the way Contra did. Which is what some of us found to be a bad move. The half-assed attempt to explain and justify it didn't help.

edited 24th Mar '18 12:36:39 PM by M84

The idea that there's some sort of divide between "performer" and "true believer" is a questionable assertion anyway. If these people weren't bigoted they wouldn't be prepared to exploit bigotry to make money; you don't promote hatred against someone you actually respect.

And that's without getting into the fact that someone can knowingly lie and still believe it, ie the guy who just "knows" on a gut level, that African-Americans are more dangerous than white folks, and uses statistics that he's fully aware are made up in order to "prove" it.

Heh. Saw this above the de Franco thread and I actually thought this was somehow about the video game Contra. Mistaken, I was.

Hmmm. Ok so, I don't think Contra's actually asking anyone to go palling around with people they don't like. She's doing it mostly because she feels that it's the most effective thing she, personally, can do. I don't think I've seen her say it's something everyone should or even can do.

Plus, I think it's been pointed out before (since you guys seem to have this exact same argument every five pages) that she's not actually trying to convert other youtube personalities. She's trying to present an argument to the audience, which is a very, very different goal.

I mean, really, if these shitty ideas are never challenged, how do you expect anyone to be convinced that you're right? How else, exactly, do you think such things can be challenged? Because shaming sure as fuck doesn't seem to work, and none of you seem to have anything to say other than "don't acknowledge them" as if no one in the history of ever has ever ended up changing their minds for the better.

And to be clear, I'm not saying you have to like what Contra does. I really don't have a dog in that particular fight. But you're not exactly presenting clear tactics or suggestions for what you think would be more effective in achieving Contra's, or yours, goals.

She literally provided that argument of palling around with people from the other side in her video titled "The Left".

I shouldn't have to argue my right to exist. I don't know what about this is so hard to understand.

Good, cause nobody is asking you to.

She's outright being friendly to alt right aligned assholes, people who are in multiple ways bigoted. I'd think anyone has a right to express discomfort in that.

True, I don't think anyone is arguing that they don't.

*points to following quote*

edited 30th Mar '18 12:23:20 AM by PhysicalStamina

Nobody is asking you to.

The only tangential way I could think of the Stephen Fry -clip relating to this Contra-convo is Fry's statement how progress can be reversed, because that's how some Contra-fans see things potentially going with Contra, her ending up reversing the progress she's made?

It's not relevant and people have moved on from it already.

Adric, I only commented on how anything about it could, note, tangentially resemble the Contra-situation, even though the video itself wasn't related. It doesn't detract from anything anyone else has said, so please don't act like it does.

Fine, it's tangential. I'd assumed we'd moved on from it days ago.

Contra's new video is out: What's Wrong with Capitalism (Part 2), where we find out if you can be against capitalism while still liking having stuffs:

I wonder if we'll see more of the tankie-woman?