ContraPoints

To be fair, he isn't wrong on a certain aspect. The slang 'trap' has been associated with those Dude Looks Like a Lady and/or those impersonating the opposite gender in anime. Now, of course, it has since been used to refer to transgender people later down the line. In the end, the use shapes up the word. The meme was never exactly amusing in the first place anyway, waste of breath is all.

edited 18th Mar '18 8:59:11 AM by UltraWanker

Even that prior usage perpetuates an unhealthy image of transphobia. Makes me sick, really, and it's annoying to see Contra using it for inflammatory attention.

Also, looking through those tweets linked, I'm really annoyed with her labelling some of her leftist critics as being "anarcho-communists with anime avatars who don't even watch her videos". There's absolutely no good faith to be had with a statement like this. Optics, my ass.

Certainly in Japanese media, both mainstream and pornographic, I can't remember a single instance of one of them hiding their sex to a potential partner.

The misgendering, pronoun-wise was portrayed "in real time" to highlight my misunderstanding and correction. However, she's definitely transsexual, as she is undergoing biological, medically assisted transition. She's also transgender, I guess, although she's rather genderqueer in expression, pronouns aside.

I know the world keeps trying to hurt you, but please have faith.

I thought anime avatars were an Alt Right thing?

edited 18th Mar '18 9:11:57 AM by TheHandle

I've also heard it joked that it's a trans girl thing so I really don't know. I doubt the alt right have a monopoly on it.

How do you know Contra's doing it for the attention and not, say, out of helpful intentions?

And she doesn't say that all of her critics are anarcho-communist whatevers. Perhaps she has good reasons to suspect/believe that some people aren't really criticizing her in good faith.

Because why would you use that word as the title for a video if not to get attention from people? And no, I don't buy that most of her critics aren't arguing in good faith. They have legitimate grievances that Contra has chosen to ignore and it's been gradually driving away some of her audience.

I get it, she's trying to educate some of the people who can potentially be reached by her videos. Many people have. But it's still at the expense of some of her audience that she has repeatedly belittled and insulted, and it's frustrating.

My two cents on the matter: it's very frustrating that, seemingly, every month, Contra ends up doing something like this which (understandable) alienates and upsets a large portion of her audience, then doesn't actually learn from her mistakes. It's hard for me to see the "Are Tr*ps Gay?" title as anything beyond clickbait that she's banking on people watching because "wow, that title is incredibly shitty, hopefully the video is more understandable".

But genuinely, as a trans person, this is frustrating, and the fact that she just flings out a slur, context-free, then goes on the defensive and accuses critics of not arguing in good faith is...tiring. Because it keeps happening.

(Also, anime avatars, in my experience, are definitely used by the alt-right, but also in large part by leftists, and then also by people who review anime for a living. So you'd have to check out the person's actual twitter to make a judgment on that.)

edited 18th Mar '18 2:46:19 PM by unexplainedEnemy

I don't get why she does this either. She seems like she'd be smarter than this.

I didn't say "most". I said "some". Please don't twist my words.

I'm not. And even them, some is a vague word. At best it's a tiny fraction. Less than one percent or something. Not enough that it should require ignoring everyone.

So Contra has apologized on Twitter about her recent outburst.

So she agrees that the title is clickbaity and potentially triggering, but she still wants to do it because the normies relate to it so she can convert them. While I think it's incredibly justified for trans people to be wary because of a title like that, I also understand her point. I say this because I've seen how frighteningly common the word "trap" and the meme "are traps gay" are used, especially by young (and often nice) people who seemed to not understand why they shouldn't use it.
So while I think that adding an explanation behind a colon (ex: Are traps gay: why is it a harmful question to ask) would be nice, I understand Contra's need for putting that in the title to attract people who might be aversed to "social justice" and "political correctness". The way she phrased it, I think it should be a bit similar to Hbomb's video on cultural marxism and virtual signalling.

edited 19th Mar '18 12:23:29 PM by HottoKenai

I understand her point there. I understand the idea of trying to convert some of the more ignorant people who genuinely don't mean badly and who can be reasoned with. I honestly do think the video will most likely turn out well, give a good criticism of the trap stereotype, and probably lead to many people to understanding that the stereotype is kind of bullshit.

What's made me apprehensive is how this isn't the first time this has happened. This is a repeating cycle that needs to stop. Controversy after controversy. Additionally, it hasn't helped that she's grown a following of people who are telling her to not apologize and are praising her for "triggering" or "offending" people (including one Shoe on Head who we've already discussed here repeatedly). This is a dangerous game that leaves me feeling annoyed that she hasn't seemed to notice how many right wing assholes are praising her for offending people.

The arguments are sound, the intent good, the execution likely to be good as well, and the overall effect beneficial, so why shouldn't this pattern be sustainable?

But you could always tell her that. Also you could invite her over here. We have great moderation.

edited 19th Mar '18 2:35:07 PM by TheHandle

Misaimed Fandom. My biggest worry right now is how she seems to be ignoring this growing following of right wingers who are enjoying seeing her "trigger" people and who are alienating some of her other followers.

And...really no, why would I want to invite her here? Pretty sure that wouldn't go well at all.

edited 19th Mar '18 2:37:46 PM by AdricDePsycho

I can see why she would do that, it not only "normies" but is a pretty blunt way to engage the alt right who, for all their pretentious of being smart still engage in childish way of debate(I mean really, see "the racionalist" used things like RECK or TRIGGER in their titles) after all, part of the charm of Contra have is that she is aware of the way the alt right moves and their turn and ways, making more aceptable for "Normies".

Again, I understand why. My problem is when she's doing it to the point where it's alienating her followers constantly with it.

I think Contra sees her role as educating the mainstream and right-leaning people, a lot more than she sees it as producing content for left-leaning people.

Her videos aren't meant for the left wing audience, in a sense. She's not addressing the people that already agree with her.

Like... it's important for LGBT people to have media aimed at them, which makes them feel safe, and which goes out of its way not to do anything to make them feel belittled or hurt. But that's not at all the same thing as an educational video meant to make specific points, and I don't think it's actually what Contra wants to make? Just because Contra *is* trans, doesn't mean her videos are obligated to fit into the mold of 'safe media produced for the consumption of other trans people'.

So I can understand why she would decide not to act on criticism along the lines of "this video alienates me, your fan and a member of your community", if that would get in the way of her reaching the people she actually wants to reach.

Her videos aren't for you, really. Not primarily.

edited 21st Mar '18 7:02:16 AM by LoniJay

Sure, Contra.◊

Er... what's that supposed to mean?

That she has a snowball's chance in Hell of actually convincing right-leaning viewers of anything she's saying and she's kidding herself if she thinks otherwise.

I mean, she's welcome to try, but unlikely to succeed.

Considering that Contra has talked about formerly being one of the same kind of assholes who'd dismiss this, then learning and changing, I can sympathize with her belief that she can change people's minds, and with her desire to help people become less shitty, to an extent.

Of course, that extent does not carry as far as "flippantly tossing around transmisogynist slurs is okay because I'm trying to reel in the audience that sees nothing wrong with using those slurs, or with the implication that trans women are just trying to "trick" straight men by virtue of their existence."

I can't say I particularly like Contra's methods, but at least I get what she's doing. And I agree that you're much more likely to get people onboard with you if you're nicer to them. (that doesn't mean you have to go on picnics with them though) Not that I think the notion of her managing to convince a whole lot of people is realistic. But at least she wants to try.

Mind you, that doesn't mean those alt-right assholes are entitled to people being nice to them and no leftist has an obligation to indulge them, but if Contra wants to, then more power to her I guess.

Isn't it ironic though? The alt-right constantly whines about people being too coddled and living in an echo chamber, but they basically require being talked to as inoffensively as possible lest one of their warning signals goes off and they start complaining about "the sjws" as soon as they hear something they don't like and all rationality flies out of the window.

Psychological Projection. It's their thing.

She hasn't even successfully convinced some of them.

Shoe on Head? Still a shit. Theryn Meyer? Still a shit.

Sadly, some of these people cannot be reached at all, and her goal to reach some of them is ultimately going to backfire. By appealing to the shitlords, she's throwing other people under the bus by presenting herself as the "cool" alternative who is "better" than them, and it's causing people to get angry. Saying her videos are "not for you" is a shitty defense to make.

Contra has said at previous times that she does get messages from people sometimes saying "Hey, I used to be an alt-right shithead, but your videos helped me understand why I was wrong".

Apparently that's enough, for her to keep doing it. A handful of anonymous people who saw the error of their ways as a result of her work.

It's not particularly dramatic or visible result, but unless you're going to claim she's lying about getting those responses, you have to admit that sometimes it DOES work.

Just because it's never going to work on the worst or most vocal and influential of them, doesn't mean it's completely hopeless and has no effects at all.

We're back at this argument again: If we as a community/movement/whatever are unwilling to even TRY to convert people, how exactly are we planning to reduce the number of our opponents? Kill them? Outbreed them?