HBO's Westworld

Well, they were written by the same person. The original Westworld movie was written by Michael Chriton and Jurassic Park the novel was written by him too. I'm uncertain about his involvement in the film version of that book though.

One thing I've been thinking about with this show recently and I really hope the showrunners remember this is that we ultimately only really saw the 1% of humanity running, around Westworld and Delos ultimately exist to benefit the rich and now Dolores has positioned herself into privilege unlike the other hosts for her plans, and that despite everything we still have no idea how the world at large thinks of Delos and their technology

what i'm saying is that please don't forget class divisions exist jon nolan, i don't want to hear any more nonsense about are these robots human after we spent an entire season finale answering that question with a clear resounding yes

And I think that's the problem/question the show now needs to answer here; Is the show fundementally about the hosts and their place within or against humanity? Or is the show about Westworld and the other six parks and the morality of what happens when a society becomes so advanced that most forms of violence and conflict are resolved, so many create artificial conflicts for the sake of self-fulfillment and entertainment?

Because I feel like the show will become an Artifact Title if we leave the parks behind. Yes, Maeve is still in the park and probably going to be rebuilt by Felix and Sylvester (WHY???), but the vast majority of the other plots like Dolores' and the Man in Black's have somewhat moved beyond the park and to Delos and humanity itself.

And I don't know if I'm quite as interested in those if the series has kind of established that the outside world IS boring. And lacking in conflict. Because wasn't that the point of Westworld?

Not trying to bump, but apparently viewership of Westworld across Season 2 dropped a total of 24% by the Season Finale and critical reception droped on rottentomatoes too.

Odd question: if Sizemore crimped story material from Westworld for the other parks, how does the "Paint it Black" scene unfold in other parks? Like how does it happen in "medieval world"? Something like Robin hood? Or maybe a bunch of Crusaders riding into an Arab town? How does it happen in "Arabian world" or "Greek world"?

I got the impression he only stole from Westworld for Shugun World since he was on timecrunch to get the park done in time. I didn't get the impression every park is a Westworld Clone. The Raj at the very least has such a level of scale and luxury that I don't think it quite equates to Shogun World.

At the very least, I think cribbing off Westworld was one of the problems with Shogun world in S2 that I think hindered it from having its own identity. Of note, I've seen very few people refer to the characters as Musashi or Hanayro and instead refer to them as Shogun!Hector/Armistice.

Also not helping is how inconsequencial Shogun World was to S2's plot and none of the characters really had anything to do after that episode, leading to them not having their own independant identities among other problems.

I have a love-hate relationship with some S2 things.

Season 3 trailer

The vibe I'm getting from this is less about Westworld, hosts, and their place in society and more like they put on some random episode of Black Mirror. The final line is the only thing that actually feels like it's meant to reflect the story so far.

like it's probably some kind of convoluted bait-and-switch but it feels so divorced from the first two seasons in presentation that I'm just kinda feeling eh about it.

Same. Group of friends and SO that were happy to watch that as we hated, laughed, and drank through Game of Thrones were excited to see a trailer...

Only to wonder if we were watching the the right video.

I dont really know what I watched and I feel like they're latching onto the wrong elements...

Season 3 trailer

The only things I can unambiguously say I liked are automated worker drones because if they do take a look at What Measure Is a Non-Human? with non-humanoid robots in comparison to the hosts, that's a valid avenue to explore and Ramin Djawadi is once again doing his goddamn hardest to carry a show.

I guess Maeve with a katana looked cool? And exploring Charlotte 2 as a character also has potential?

idk I just can't get myself excited for anything involving Aaron Paul's character so far

So, I've spent the past few days binging this series. Just finished Episode 5 of Season 2 (Akane No Mai).

That was some fun shit. When the party is dragged into town by Musashi's crew to a Japanese instrumental of Paint it black, while Armistice immediately notices some familiarity, I started paying attention, and then when Musashi kills the town's sheriff, it fully clicked.

And it was spectacular.

Of course, the best part (besides Armistic and Hanryo just staring at each other in confusion) was when Akane started dancing to another Japanese instrumental...of Wu Tang Clan.

I didn't recognize the song until someone told me, but you could feel the rage in her movement. Someone was going to get fucked up... and that someone was the Shogun.

This show has me hooked, hardcore.

Which is funny, since I'm kinda sick of Turned Against Their Masters and the same old stories when it comes to androids, but fortunately this is good enough to make me look past that.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Mar 26th 2020 at 9:20:11 AM

Gotta say, even if it's a Genre Shift, the third season premiere is my favorite premiere thus far. I'm pretty pumped and really enjoying this season.

Just finished season 2.

Man, humanity always, always finds a way to screw itself in fiction, doesn't it?

Double post.

Watched the first two eps of season 3. Currently watching episode 3.

Not sure who's in the Hale Host body, but I do know that it looks like even she had people she loved. It doesn't excuse what she did, but it puts more context into why she was willing to go so far to get out.

I still want to know who's in her body right now myself. I'm guessing Teddy.

wow Tessa Thompson did an incredible job to carry that episode, it's fascinating to flesh out Hale and the imposter wearing her skin.

Killing Tommy was Thompson's real standout bit and there was a little clever way in how it was initially built up through Nathan's narrative to the reality.

So, who could it be if not Teddy? Because it can't be Teddy, that's way too obvious and we know the show is addicted to twists.

I mean, other named, not Forged Hosts include... Hector, Armistace, Dolores' father, El Lazo... Maybe her father? None of them seem like good fits.

New episode.

....that makes so much sense, I'm angry at myself for not considering it.

Latest episode:

This is ground control to Major Tom. Dolores just blew the entire world open.

That was such a great move - "What do you want my credentials for, I only have read access permissions, I cant do anything to the system". Dolores "Yes".

...well, that went pear shaped for pretty much everyone.

We've got two episodes left (of this season?) and I'm starting to solidify my feelings and... I don't know why this is a season of Westworld, I guess?

Like, I just feel like it has little to do with the themes and philosophies of the previous seasons and almost feels like they had a cyberpunk/tech thriller that got co-opted into Westworld?

I just feel like I don't know where this season is really going, the philosophizing and narratives and just the titular Westworld just isn't around anymore and... it doesn't feel like Westworld really to me.

And I think it's telling that a number of the more 'interesting' elements could so far be cut and not change much. Like, Genre, Caleb gets drugged by the ceo kid for the entire episode but that never actually really does anything the entire episode. Could cut it easily and the plot of the episode would be the same, minus the different camera angles, lighting, and the dissonant music.

I agree with you 100% and at the same time disagree with you 100%.

Like, you're right. This... doesn't need to be Westworld. It's grown past it to the point that it basically could be an unrelated series with some similar character archetypes. Not even a lot. But some.

This season is about as Westworld as 50 Shades of Gray is Twilight. It basically took some of the same characters, changed them, and threw them into a basically unrecognizable situation.

As for the disagree... despite that, I really like this season. It's fun, interesting, and moves well. Even as I think "this doesn't have to be Westworld" I think "... but I'm glad it is because otherwise I might not be watching it."

Edited by Larkmarn on Apr 20th 2020 at 4:15:36 AM

I assumed this seasons was an acknowledgement of the Future World part of the franchise.

I mean, it's literally the future world.

I just... don't actually find it that interesting I guess? I don't think Serac or Dolores or these characters have very well thought out motivations or philosophize on them particularly well. As much as Serac had the spotlight for his backstory episode, I couldn't help but see a lot of glaring holes in his views that I feel like would have been examined or felt intentional had it been the first season. Here it ends up feeling... messy or underdeveloped?

Westworld has been consistently having an identity problem since the second season and I don't think it really knows the story it wants to tell. Season 1 felt consistent and great on the whole. The whole story felt like, in the vision of Ford, a symphony on which almost every note played it's part and kept to beat (with maybe one or two minor moments that just felt bad *looks at the gay host rape scene at the end of S1*). It had a philosophy and idea of exactly the note it wanted to end on with the dramatic rise of the hosts against the board.

But... Season 2 didn't feel like it knew where to go from there. Individual episodes felt excellent; Akecheta's solo episode and Shogun world being highlights, but none of them coheased into a particularly well done narrative with ambiguous character motivations, confused audience empathy, and a rather mixed end goal.

Season 3 just... feels like it doesn't want to be Westworld anymore? It doesn't feel like it knows what to *do* with the park, its hosts, and its narratives. The Hosts and the park feel out of place in this story of data espionage while this whole storyline with data secrets and citizen privacy laws feels bogged down with artifacts from the previous two seasons that don't service that plot. I'm not saying that these ideas couldn't work in the same narrative, but I don't think there's concrete between the bricks no matter how hard we're trying to smash them together. A lot of elements aren't supporting each other.

The show keeps losing all the things that I fell in love with and I'm feeling more and more lost about what I'm supposed to be attracted by?

This was basically William this episode.

I agree.

Westworld is best about what you would do if you had ultimate freedom in a park of thinking beings you thought were video game characters. The problem is HBO clearly didn't think this had resonance despite a billion or so gamers worldwide.