Cinema Wins (Everything GREAT About...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_I98Y9Xees

Home Alone.

Apperently it was an older video he took down and updated.

i think i saw this movie on the Trope Deader Than Disco. Which got reduced in size. *Which to be honest, i am kind of glad. I wasn't convinced half of the stuff in the Deader than Disco were actually as such*

edited 23rd Dec '16 5:31:26 PM by Luigikart64

That misses the point, though: Harley and the Joker are an unhealthy relationship, her being a "fangirl" as you put it is her being manipulated by an abusive twat who only wants to use her, he doesn't love her at all. Suicide Squad's writing of her and Joker's relationship to be a stupid Bonnie and Clyde ripoff was sickening. I don't know if it's just my bile at the movie itself or because of my own IRL observations of abusive relationships involving people I've been close to, but it sickens me how the movie made their relationship genuine.

"her being a "fangirl" as you put it is her being manipulated by an abusive twat who only wants to use her, he doesn't love her at all"

and we saw that over and over until batman beyond(actually not, t it was the movie) were in the end...she get pregnant and give birth to twins that become evil....yeah no, sorry for me that was a wasted in the DCAU, considering how they manage to concluded some storyliness like mr freeze, I least here I can actually belive she is a villian who do some bad choices but is sympathic, hell I also intrigued by the fact the joker actually feel some atraction instead of the usual "murderboner" against bats.

but that is just me.

It's better in the comics, she gets into a relationship with Poison Ivy. Hell, B:TAS had Ivy try and get Harley out of her relationship with the Joker. Yes, they're villains, but the Joker is supposed to be an absolutely horrible human being on a different level to either of them. He's not supposed to have sympathy outside of maybe one or two moments (The Killing Joke had some moments, but they still presented him as evil). I mean, it's sickening to me that they'd make a character who threw his girlfriend out of a window for "ruining a punchline" would be presented as a good boyfriend.

edited 4th Jan '17 9:26:38 AM by AdricDePsycho

Well Green Lantern still exists to challenge for that title.

On Harley: I think making the relation genuine actually detracts from Harley's charm. The big thing that made Harley popular and stand out is how blind she is to her own situation. She's bubbly and happy and really chipper and madly in love and completely unaware that Joker doesn't care about her.. Her having a genuine relation removes the surreal disconnect she's in, and honestly detracts from what made the character's charm.

edited 4th Jan '17 9:34:55 AM by Ghilz

that about posion ivy always feel weird to me, because if I remenber well she was something of a misanthropist who hate humans and people in general.

and that we are taking this, I will be honest and said that for me, Harley past with the joker always feel something of artefact to me: she never contribuite with the chararter of the joker in anything but showing how much of asshole he is(which again, is not something new) considering how he move without her and how she got better after she leave him i will said the comic eventually got the same conclusion.

And for last, this is diferent incarnation of the joker, im surprise this one actually feel something aside of is murderboner for batman which is positive step and I least I can belive Harley is a villian rather than edgy hero.

pd: if you ask me Adric, I recomend you the joker blogs, a fan series about the nolan joker between dark knight and rises, it have what I consider THE BEST showing of harley and the joker of all.

I honestly can't see how Harley's backstory is an artifact. She's a person who goes in over her head in trying to cure the uncurable and winds up a victim to the Joker's evil. And yet when people keep acting like their relationship is cute (and a lot of people act like it's cute), it needs to be reminded that their relationship is not a good one. Fucking hell, I've met people from all around who act like their relationship is like how it is in Suicide Squad (before the movie came out, of course), and it's disturbing that people think their relationship is actually healthy or cute.

The Joker is not supposed to be sympathetic, their relationship is not supposed to be good, and the film completely forgets about that because it'd rather go for a generic Bonnie and Clyde vibe. Hell, the original script to Suicide Squad apparently had their relationship as genuinely abusive, the writers actually knew that! I don't know if it was revising the script or the piss poor editing, but the film turning it into Bonnie and Clyde is just...ugh. It's like canonizing every stupid Harley/Joker slashfic out there that makes them out to be a perfect couple.

...because of that actually, most of the time the joker work alone and it bare no diference if he have harley arund and people remenber her more AFTER she got out his grip into Poison ivy, at times take away that and you have...this film Harley who just act weird and crazy, it dosent help in the comic the joker is often flanderized into a super slasher villian who is fixed into batman on a obsessive degree, something that make Harley even more pointless.

And again, diferent incarnation of the joker, the novelizaton said he tie Harley in that chair because she order a electrotherapy on him screwing the few memories he have and for what I hear, in the extended edition he told her on her face to fuck off, which put a intersting dinamic on the two.

edited 4th Jan '17 10:49:32 AM by unknowing

I have literally no idea what you just said. Are you trying to say Harley is uninteresting?

edited 4th Jan '17 11:07:05 AM by AdricDePsycho

yes, for me Harley as henchmen of the joker is uninteresting, since it does expand Joker in anyway more that "he is asshole" which is something we already knew and it become redundant in the comic since they push the whole "he only care about batman" waaaay to much, narrative speaking neither of them gain something around each other, for Harley story the joker funtion the same way as Batman parents, just a way to gain a identity.

That is why I kinda like what I saw in Suicida Squad, in part because I can belive she is actually a villian and how she got there in the first place and I intersted in see the joker capable to actually feel something(whoever twisted it is)

Abut anyway I thing we are going to off topic, if you wanted we can discuss this in PM since it would be the best, if not them I only recomend you the joker blog, sure it is devolpment hell right now but they in my opinion the best depiction of Harley and the Joker so far.

I'm torn on how I feel about the movie's depiction of Harley because I feel like it is simultaneously the best and worst portrayal she's ever had.

It's the worst because of the aforementioned points about the film romanticizing the horrifically abusive relationship she has with the Joker - as well as the electroshock cop-out for why she's crazy.

It's also the best because it's the first time we really got to see Harley show off her intelligence by psychoanalyzing the other members of the cast. This portrayal actually remembers that she's a f*cking psychiatrist. That never comes up. Nearly every portrayal of her presents her as 100% idiot bombshell, promptly ignoring the fact that this woman has a PHD the instant her backstory is done.

edited 4th Jan '17 9:48:58 PM by TobiasDrake

the problem is, is hard to said she have a PHD when is the same woman who fall for the joker in the first place, because it make a horrible judge of chararter, for me it seen the write a times want to have both: they want a woobie but that also is a villian(or a least no heroic) for.....reason, really.

In a way I actually like her here because we see her as villian and actually doing stuff, when before she is just....there, being happy until the joker slap her to remind us she is a victim.

Who know, maybe im salty because I feel her despiction in the DCAU was weak.

And on the other hand, I kinda like the joker to actually have something else than "I desire to fuck/muder batman", it was good but I feel that angle have been overplayed.

People develop really dumb attractions to people who are going to be just awful to them all the time. Even very smart people are capable of doing very stupid things when their feelings are pulling them in the wrong direction.

You could have the smartest brain in the world and still have very dumb emotions. That's basically the Harley I've been wanting to see. The one who's not just an airheaded bimbo, who is actually quite book-smart, but who consistently makes terrible choices despite it.

Suicide Squad came the closest to that out of any Harley depiction I've seen. Just a shame it was also bogged down by romanticizing her abusive relationship.

edited 6th Jan '17 10:06:10 AM by TobiasDrake

She does villain stuff quite a bit in B:TAS, the thing is that she does it without the Joker. She's arguably more dangerous without him. So...that's another bizarre layer to that toxic relationship, I suppose.

She's much more dangerous without him. More interesting, too. There are basically two Harleys:

• Harley, the Joker's obnoxious sidekick whose entire character revolves around how best to service his characterization.
• Harley, the fun and interesting supervillain with engaging characterization, enjoyable character relationships, and fun interactions.

Any time she's around the Joker, she lightswitches into the boring Harley, but when she's away from him, she's great. He's not just a toxic relationship from an in-universe standpoint; he's just as bad for her narratively as romantically.

thr problem with that is that it make abused harley a chore since we have to wait until she finally break with him in order to have the most intersting one, because of that Harley abusve relationship become something like bruce parent: a way to get from point A to point B.

I mean one of my good moment for her in the film is how Batman when to rescue here and she still try to kill her, which is another problem I have with her: she is so much a victim or a cute crazy chick that it dosent explore what she did as joker henchmen, which is why I call her a "fangirl"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkAMp2eu1o0

Finding Dory

...you mean Female Deadpool?

edited 9th Jan '17 9:44:56 AM by Soble

Lady Deathpool or Gwenpool?

Fem-pool. Chic-pool.

I would have used H-Pool but I'm pretty sure that's the name of an h-doujin site.

If you were seriously asking, no, I mean Harley. That is essentially what she is - a wacky, fourth wall-breaking nonsense machine who is treated like an anti-hero surrounded by an eclectic cast and off-the-wall references. They even created a Deadpool-like parody for her solo series and he annoys the crap out of her by being even loonier than she is.

edited 9th Jan '17 11:07:51 AM by Soble

But DC already has a Deadpool. He's just lame.

He's not lame! He's just partially blind.

Now that soble said it...yeah, that is why I feel weird about Harley, most of the time she is joker fangirl, expecting him to notice her while he is to busy trying to murder/fuck Batman and them she is just...female deadpool, for me that never mash up that well so most of the time they just skip into one part of the other, I guess that I kinda like her now with an actual relationship with the joker(twisted as it is) because it flow better into what it is now, instead of "she is too looney to be a hero but to woobie to be a villian"

But again, I recomend the joker blogs, it have the best interpretation of Harley for me, if they just get on their damn devolpment hell.

A new video on "A New Hope", great fun to watch.