Netflix's Voltron: Legendary Defender

Everything Alley just said is accurate. This entire notion that Shiro contributes nothing is flagrantly bullshit. Lance has become absolutely tolerable this season and I actually like him. These complaints are utter nonsense that don't hold up to scrutiny.

Not really, because like I said, everything Lance and Allura did this season was the lions making them, not of their own volition. We didn't need to see an entire episode about Shiro escaping and then skip his reunion completely.

At this point I consider the show just bad.

edited 24th Aug '17 10:10:26 PM by Beatman1

Oh my god, there is no such thing as objectively bad entertainment. Your personal hatred of nonsensical things doesn't make the show "objectively" bad.

edited 24th Aug '17 10:05:14 PM by AdricDePsycho

I see the thread hasn't move past the "Beatman 1 is still butthurt about Shiro" stage yet >_>

Fine, I misspoke. Edited it. But there are fundamental flaws in the storytelling engine where key moments and reactions are missing, elements of the world building aren't there, that even if you were invested in everyone, the storytelling itself is at fault.

At this point I don't like anyone in the show. Keith is a pretty terrible character but so is everyone else.

edited 24th Aug '17 10:11:06 PM by Beatman1

Objectively bad? Oh come on this is just hyperbole. Lance's whole speech in episode 6 was entirely him stepping up to the plate and growing up. And even if the Blue Lion accepted Allura as a pilot, if anything it emphasized her own insecurities more than ever, and made her a lot more likeable this time around. Neither of those were the lions making them. Both were instances of actual character development.

> We didn't need to see an entire episode about Shiro escaping and then skip his reunion completely.

One of your complaints was that Shiro brings nothing to the ongoing narrative. This episode is clear proof that he does, what with the revelation of Operation Kuron, followd by his ongoing headaches and clash with Keith (which might help get Keith out of his rut). Plus that episode is probably among the show's most effective cases of episode direction and pacing, enough so that even if the rest of the show was pure garbage I could still point a stranger towards that episode as something worth watching on its own. And regarding your issues with the series' worldbuilding it also accomplished a lot of that relative to the previous ones.

edited 24th Aug '17 10:17:03 PM by AlleyOop

What, because Hunk and Pidge get slightly pushed into the background here after already getting a lot of focus already, despite them more than likely being given more focus soon? Lance is a better character in 7 episodes than he's been in two whole seasons, Allura is awesome as always, Shiro continues to be better than Keith and one of the best characters on the show, and Korran...is there too but he's at least funny, unlike Keith.

At this point I don't like anyone in the show. Keith is a pretty terrible character but so is everyone else.

So stop watching it. Problem solved. It's what I do with shows I don't like. Move on. Life's too short.

Like, going by the Wall of Text you write about why you dislike the show, it's clearly not worth your time or bad blood. Don't give yourself apoplexy over an average silly show about space lion robots. Not like Voltron Legendary Defenders is being some giant cultural touchstone here.

edited 24th Aug '17 10:18:56 PM by Ghilz

I may be overly critical of S3, but I do like the show and its characters. I think it has a lot of potential, and the characters all can be great when they take the time to use them. The problem is that if they develop any character, another has to take on a role that may not be fitting but it's needed for for a safe way of getting development.

It's just a core problem of the show that the characters have to fit the narrative, but sometimes the narrative doesn't fit the characters. We need a character to balance moody Keith in an episode, let's have Hunk (a sweetheart) saying vaguely racist (speciesist?) comments on his newly discovered heritage and making fat jokes! We need Lance to step up as a second-in-command, and so it is done with literally no transition between "Keith's the worst choice" to "I accept you as our leader". Hunk suffers the worst of it, since he's a brilliant engineer (according to the official site, his intelligence is on par with Pidge's), but takes on the role of a dumb guy when needed because... well, that's the stereotype of someone with his body type.

I truly like the show, it's just frustrating because I know it can do better in some areas with just a few slight tweaks, and S3 being half the length only makes those unpolished areas all the more apparent.

Hunk is a sweetheart, and he was very clearly prodding at Keith in an attempt to make him open up and normalize his Galra side. Also, there were plenty of moments in season 3.5 where Hunk talks science with Pidge. The only time when Hunk was lost was when Pidge was talking about theoretical physics as they relate to alternate dimensions, which makes sense that Hunk would be lost in that field because he's a engineer, not a physicist.

edited 24th Aug '17 11:23:42 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

I don't know about you, but I'd definitely not open up or relax with someone looking uncomfortable around me and calling me stuff like "native Damian" once they discover I'm not fully white, checking if my skin is a different color and they just never noticed or asking if I know every other people I share a race with. It hit a little too close to home for me to seem joking.

And again, I like the characters. I like Hunk, and his scene with Pidge in S3 is amazing. Even in the weblum episode he has a lot of great moments, I just think that when the show doesn't focus on him, the writers treat him as if he's just dumb, cowardly and a source of food/fat jokes, when he can be and is so much more.

I'm holding most of my criticisms about season 3 back. Judging it requires to make too much asumptions on what they intended or what they are going with it. Is Keith intended to become the permanent leader or will Shiro step up again? Is this Shiro the real deal or a clone? Are the Lion switch and the problems it caused an intentional and temporal roadbload or are we supposed to just ignore it?

So far the only things I can be sure is that the episode flashback was great, that Lotor and his generals are slowly but surely making their place and that episode 1 pacing was awful. Keith's character arc so far is not bad, especially if the leader thing is to show, as I read on some meta, that "there is a difference between pilot and Paladin". His galra plotline and his lack of backstory...time will tell.

I mean I never had a problem with Keith, and my problems are more with season 3 pushing in Clone Shiro back so soon. I'd really spend some time giving the team more focus and trying to work out the new dynamic.

And Lotor and his possy came across as just dicking around rather than really doing anything of value, and it'd be nice to get more of that tyrannical Altean Empire.

edited 25th Aug '17 10:29:04 AM by OmegaRadiance

Season 4 should be good for Lotor and the generals, I believe. As of now, I agree with this joke, but if they managed to turn Zarkon and Haggar into understandable villains in one episode, I have faith for Lotor and his posse.

First half of a season is never that heavy into character development anyways, no matter the show.

I know there's a theory Keith might be related to Axca in some form, and its not impossible since the Flashback of the original Paladins suggests Galrans are long lived like Alteans.

Ha I finally caught up, I finished all 3 seasons after finally getting off my lazy ass.

Great show, great show, I don't have too much complaints. If anything I think my main complaint is the lack of Robeast fights in the show since season 3 didn't have Voltron facing any Kaiju sized monsters well except for the last episode.

Flashback episode was pretty good, surprisingly excellent cutting point for the season.

Yeah, I suspect they're holding back on backstory for Lotor and his team, especially now that we know more about Zarkon's own backstory. I'm a little disappointed at how much of a Villain Sue he's coming off as so far but I'm not going to judge him until we get the "rest" of the season.

I doubt it. Bex Taylor-Klaus posted on her blog that she kinda ships Keith with Acxa, and given the voice actors are usually more knowledgeable of upcoming events than us viewers, I doubt she'd make that kind of comment if it was going to turn out they were supposed to be related. I think it's more likely she might be the token Defector from Decadence of Lotor's team due to Keith saving her in the Weblum episode.

edited 25th Aug '17 1:45:19 PM by AlleyOop

Well that works too.

I'd say he's no more of a Villain Sue than, say, Azula was. If you want a competent villain, than they will need some victories, and he has lost a couple times, or at least failed to accomplish all of his objectives.

edited 25th Aug '17 2:26:50 PM by KarkatTheDalek

He's not really a villain sue. Sure he's really badass but he's not unstoppable. He may have beat the shit out of the Lions but that had more due to the change in line-up rendering some of the Paladins in a state of weakness & he only lead them to that planet cause Keith fell for his trap hook, line & sinker where Allura then gained one over him by using tactics against him forcing him to retreat. He even has a clear concessive loss in the destruction of the Teladuv which clearly pissed him off.

Great villain he is, I like his style, very respectable. Very excited to learn more of his conception & to see Zarkon vs. Lotor since evil vs. evil battles are always great. I hope it ends with an epic confrontation with a tinge of touching tragedy.

edited 25th Aug '17 2:36:52 PM by slimcoder

I also like everyone and everything so far.

Though I do agree I don't feel Shiro should have come back so fast even if he is a fake. I still enjoyed everything even though he did come back.

edited 25th Aug '17 4:19:30 PM by Envyus

Maybe Villain Sue is a bit strong, but the way he's been handled is basically "that guy who's so much smarter and better than everyone else", Aside from being really good at his job he doesn't have much depth, not past the first episode which again was a case of showing just how much more talented he is than everyone else (specifically, in politics and charisma).

I guess the one line about his disdain for his father is a start which could lead to something more, but I would have liked them to fold more quirks into the scenes where he interacts with his generals, who also could've used a bit more elaboration of their own besides Nethrid. That's probably a general issue I have with the series, that the general dialogue tends to be on the functional side, contrast that to the writing for the Captain America movies where they're able to compress a lot of characterization into every single line.

Now that they've already established Lotor and his crew as formidable opponents I hope they spend more time on his personality and backstory.

edited 25th Aug '17 4:47:30 PM by AlleyOop

I'm gonna poke my head in for a second and defend...some of what they're doing with Lotor. His competence and established hierarchy with his generals (not a Starscream among them) is introduced as a direct contrast to the Paladins whose reaction this season ranges from disliking some to disliking all.

The problem is that he's not really doing anything different from Zarkon, yet having far greater success. He's using the same tools, his plans are all low scale, there's no big upgrade to the Galra forces like you want, but he's having far more success. That's making him seem like he's overpowered when he's really not. It's just we haven't seen anything to indicate the results should be different, except the heroes acting dumber. If they weren't acting dumber (YMMV on how unlikable they're all becoming) or we had something to indicate that the forces were deadlier, then this wouldn't be an issue.

edited 26th Aug '17 4:39:34 PM by Beatman1

Zarkon also had only two trusted people who were competent compared to Lotor having four. He also is not crazy obsessed with the lion like his dad was.

Just one Paladin, if you believe the fanart.

Seriously, I cannot stand Lancetor. Like eighty percent of the fan stuff about it is basically Lotor kidnapping or trying to kidnap Lance and being more or less a sexual predator but it's somehow supposed to be "Charming."