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dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#1: Feb 5th 2016 at 2:30:12 PM

(To start off, sorry for anyone who got offended by the word "slut"; "hedonist" didn't quite cut it)

In a medieval fantasy story I'm working on, there's this woman whose entire purpose in life is to get into as much sexual intercourse and fighting as possible, and just stimulation in general.However, when she "indulges", she has her codes.

For instance, when it comes to sexual intercourse, she refuse to sleep with anyone who is in a relationship or sworn a vow of chastity. If anyone of those is attracted by her (she is incredibly attractive and she knows it), she politely tells them to think things through and dissuade them.

When it comes to violence, she loves to fight in general and quite good at it too, both barehanded and with weapons. However, to start with, she operates under strict "no-kill, minimum injury" policy. Also, while she enjoys a good fight or a battle, she finds war horrible.

The point of this character is to show one of the ways characters in this setting choose to cope with their life. Some characters, such as the main character, choose stoicism, some choose religion, some choose escape, and this character in question choose hedonism.

She has seen some serious stuff in her life, like most of the characters. Initially she was actually more quite depressed and nihilistic, to the point of pondering just ending herself along with the entire world, because she thought the world was cruel and meaningless. Then she realized within everyone is a world of their own, and even the whole world is meaningless, she should make the best of what is given to her, while respecting other people's own worlds. So she chose to build her world around fun, though her idea of fun is a bit extreme.

Does any of this make sense? What are some things that are problematic with this idea?

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Pwener Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy from Unknown... seriously, send help. Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy
#2: Feb 5th 2016 at 2:50:19 PM

Too many personal rules in my opinion (also too strict). Makes it seem like these "codes" weren't self imposed but instead imposed on her by some third party. A true hedonist has no boundries so you have to establish to what extreme she seeks self gratification instead of imposing rule upon rule (just my two cents). As for the "people attracted to her being convinced of a better course of action" well it sounds ridiculous. A true hedonist would not pass the chance to enjoy themselves so it would seem terribly out of character and unrealistic.

As for a nihilist turning towards hedonism, well it sounds strange. I speak from experience as I had nihilistic thoughts prior to my conversion but hedonism doesn't seem like the right course unless a proper trigger is introduced (like an epiphany).

You should also touch upon the subject of STDs as they existed back in yonder medieval times. Is she indifferent towards catching one due rampant sex because her life means nothing beyond instant gratificarion or does she wish to extend her life as far as possible to enjoy life more?

edited 5th Feb '16 2:53:45 PM by Pwener

hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#3: Feb 5th 2016 at 10:58:06 PM

(EDIT: I found this thread from the On-Topic conversations section. It's called Ethical Sluttery: Theory and Practice.)

First, the good stuff. I like how you make her respectful of others. Keep that part, it's very necessary to get an Ethical Slut as opposed to an immoral hedonist who disregards the happiness of everyone else. The thread title asks for a moral slut.

I highly disagree that her rules are 'too strict' - in fact, I have trouble fathoming why it's even strict, it's simply basic respect. An Ethical Slut don't have sex with anyone who doesn't want sex (otherwise it's rape). The Ethical Slut should refuse sex from people who should not be having sex with her (otherwise that's helping others to cheat on their partners). She could let herself have sex with those in open relationships, if you want.

As a curiosity, would she have sex with a member of royalty or nobility?

How do Vows of Chastity work in this setting? Because you seem to mention someone with a Vow of Chastity trying to break their own vow. If they don't want the vow and are willing to deal with the lack of benefits, your Ethical Slut probably wouldn't refuse sex from them. Unless helping a monk break that Vow of Chastity means an entire temple is after her blood - then it's just reasonable for the Ethical Slut to refuse sex.

On a scale from 'highly gritty realistic medieval' to 'largely fantasy with medieval trappings for flavor', how medieval and how fantasy is your medieval fantasy?

Is there easily available Fantasy Contraception, or at least a kind that your Ethical Slut can get her hands as regularly as we 21 century humans can buy condoms? An Ethical Slut would insist on good hygiene to avoid spreading diseases.

Is there sexual freedom in at least some of the societies that appear in your medieval fantasy setting? What are the various societies' views on sex? How her Ethical Slut ideas happen to match up with certain societies' views and clash against other societies' views can be interesting. This also affects her interactions with other people - for example, if Morgan comes from a society where "had pre-martial sex" means "shunned from society", the Ethical Slut could refuse to have sex with Morgan.

Or (if you want a slightly greyer Ethical Slut) they could have sex anyway, while making sure the sex doesn't get known by other people. Or even go Technical Virgin, if only to make lying easier. This is especially if Morgan is horny and wants sex, but society says no.

Side note: In DnD, paladins have immunity to all diseases, and their codes don't necessarily have anything against having sex. Eheheheh.

edited 6th Feb '16 6:01:27 AM by hellomoto

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#4: Feb 6th 2016 at 10:49:24 AM

It makes sense.

A true hedonist would not pass the chance to enjoy themselves so it would seem terribly out of character and unrealistic.
Read this:[1]

edited 6th Feb '16 10:52:13 AM by Antiteilchen

JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Apparition in the Woods
#5: Feb 6th 2016 at 11:05:18 AM

[up][up][up][up] What you are describing is, insofar as I can tell, a hedonist in the formal, ethical sense: A person who believes that happiness for all is the highest ideal so long as it ultimately does others no harm. But enjoying the thrill of violence adds an interesting dimension to this philosophy, however, in that not having a strong sense of boundaries in that regard would make her a hypocrite. I would explore this further. It is also worth noting that nihilism refers to a lot of very different ideas in philosophy, and strictly speaking the character is still a nihilist, just a happy nihilist with a solid moral code.

Bad title, though. If you can change it, do. (Also, the term "ethical slut" is a direct reference to a famous essay on the subject; use that formulation if you want to use that touchstone, or avoid it entirely.)

[up][up][up] That's not what hedonism actually is. Granted, the pop culture use of the word has kind of fucked up common understanding of the meaning, but even keeping that in mind, you are unusually off-base.

[up] Oh, look, ninjutsu.

edited 6th Feb '16 11:06:11 AM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#6: Feb 6th 2016 at 2:02:33 PM

Something that could be problematic your hedonist and making (blood) lust her entire purpose is that they get reduced to their urges, especially their love of sex. Making her a Blood Knight as well, you've already given her another personality aspect , that is unrelated to sex. So she's less of a one trick pony. Unless you employ Orgasmic Combat or Combat Sado Masochist. If you do that, you have to be more careful to avoid making her too flat a character. Having other, smaller desires could help to round her out more.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#7: Feb 7th 2016 at 7:44:31 PM

Hey guys, sorry for the late reply and thanks for such detailed and varied answers. grin

You should also touch upon the subject of ST Ds as they existed back in yonder medieval times. Is she indifferent towards catching one due rampant sex because her life means nothing beyond instant gratificarion or does she wish to extend her life as far as possible to enjoy life more?

I remember that point being brought up in the STD Immunity trope page. The current explanation that she is incredibly humanoid but not actually a human being. Well, in real life cross-species STD is a thing, but not in my story and frankly it's a bit too icky too think about. [lol]

I like how you make her respectful of others. Keep that part, it's very necessary to get an Ethical Slut as opposed to an immoral hedonist who disregards the happiness of everyone else.

Why, thank you. grin Yes, indeed a big part of her code is to have as much pleasure of any kind, but never at the cost of others (such as economic or physical damage).

As a curiosity, would she have sex with a member of royalty or nobility?

For the most cases, no, because they tend to be married or soon about to be. HOWEVER, if the said royalty/nobility member's wife (or husband) gives her permission to do so, she doesn't mind. This also applies to everyone else.

How do Vows of Chastity work in this setting? Because you seem to mention someone with a Vow of Chastity trying to break their own vow.

Nothing special, really. Her reason is that if somebody wants to vow chastity out of religious, philosophical, or any good self-imposed cause, she would feel bad if someone breaks it because of her.

On a scale from 'highly gritty realistic medieval' to 'largely fantasy with medieval trappings for flavor', how medieval and how fantasy is your medieval fantasy?
Is there sexual freedom in at least some of the societies that appear in your medieval fantasy setting? What are the various societies' views on sex?

Oh God, how come did I forget this crucial part?

I should have thought on what the society's view on pre-marital sex is, among many others. Darn.

Thank you for pointing this one out.

enjoying the thrill of violence adds an interesting dimension to this philosophy, however, in that not having a strong sense of boundaries in that regard would make her a hypocrite.

On this regards, she has codes such as only fighting in a mutually accepted duels and never fighting anyone who doesn't want to, never go for the kill, respecting her opponent, etc.

It is also worth noting that nihilism refers to a lot of very different ideas in philosophy, and strictly speaking the character is still a nihilist, just a happy nihilist with a solid moral code.

I just happened to discover the trope Anti-Nihilist and what do you know, that really does describe her.

Something that could be problematic your hedonist and making (blood) lust her entire purpose is that they get reduced to their urges, especially their love of sex.

To be honest, at least at the very beginning she's sort of like that, but with moral codes to restrain her pursuit. Before the story begins, she goes through Character Development processes involving starting out as a very depressed and cynical warrior, to wild pleasure seeker, to ethical pleasure seeker. Then, as the story progresses, she asks herself if there is more to life than pleasure, which kicks off her final stage of Character Development.

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#8: Feb 9th 2016 at 4:51:03 AM

I hope to see how your societies have different views on sexuality! Especially that of her hometown, or whatever place she spends the most time in, which can shape her own sexual ethics.

You could write two sets of ideas and morals: one not-so-ethical (but not outright evil, take note of Double Standard Rape: Female on Male - this extends to various types of sexual aggression, helps to do gender-flips to see sexual situations better), and one ethical. Then, you can draw a line of Character Development from not-so-ethical to ethical.

What's her sexual orientation?

shiro_okami Since: Apr, 2010
#9: Feb 15th 2016 at 5:23:43 PM

Somebody already brought up ST Ds, but what about contraception? Does it exist in your setting? Does your protagonist actually have any children? What is her view on abortion? Is abortion in that setting safe or terribly messy and dangerous? Sometimes people forget that sex is inexplicably tied to procreation.

edited 15th Feb '16 5:24:56 PM by shiro_okami

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