South America culture and politics thread

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So, yeah, Brazil, not even our shadiest politicians pull off these manoeuvres. Is it derived from a loophole, or does someone need to seriously and urgently review the whole part in the law that apparently allows Lula to become a minister?

Oh, and giving Lula a mega-ministry/ministério [dunno the correct word in English]? Bad move...

edited 15th Mar '16 2:09:19 PM by Quag15

Ministério.

It isn't a loophole as much as our constitution allows ministries to have some legal immunities and privileges when it comes to corruption investigations, as a mean to shelter them and prevent ministries from falling out of the seat faster than they can be seated.

It is a political stunt, but there is no way everyone will eat it up quietly, specially when Lula gave us this gem: "Brazil is like this: when a poor person steals he goes to jail, when a rich person steals he becomes a minister"^note “No Brasil é assim: quando um pobre rouba, vai para a cadeia, mas quando um rico rouba, ele vira ministro”. If Lula really gets a ministry the PT will hemorrhage support again.

I know ministério is our word. I was looking for the English equivalent (it's either ministry, department or cabinet).

I've seen that Lula quote being shared in my FB feed from some friends of mine. To be fair, it was said by him when he wasn't known for what he is known today. Though, yeah, no one will let him live that down (and justifiably so).

As for the law thing, due to EU regulations throughout these past 2 decades, we've been gradually changing our stuff in regards to politicians, in order to not give them too much room. Your scenario is a bit more complex, from my perspective.

Your politicians and lawmakers have a lot more unwillingness (both intentional and unintentional) to tackle the whole issue (unless there was a long-term dedication, which is not the case with quite a lot of politicians).

edited 15th Mar '16 3:08:15 PM by Quag15

Changing the law would require our politicians to willingly give away their excessive power in order to allow better governance to settle in.

Currently, there is no political will to do so, even when there is an increasing social pressure to do so.

So Lula is finally appointed as the chief of staff.

The Guardian: Released tapped phone calls implicate Lula's nomination for the Chief of Staff as a political maneuver to allow him to escape prosecution

The implications include that Dilma is actively obstructing justice in order to protect a former president. Which can constitute as a crime worthy of impeachment.

As it was noted^{Link in Portuguese}, there are evidences of both Lula and Dilma tampering with the Supreme Federal Court to give a favorable ruling over Lula, essentially meaning the nomination for Chief of Staff is only a maneuver to give Lula a court that won't fully prosecute him and both Dilma and Lula know it which can be used as evidence for the president directly engaging in obstruction of justice.

BUSINESS AS USUAL EH

Question: How legal is that thing where the judge released that tapped Dilma/Lula phone conversation?

So I hear the Lula appointment was shot down by the judiciary.

It is dubious but the General Union Attorney declared them to be on the same vein of documents that fall under the public domains over investigations regarding the state, therefore legal.

Three times.

edited 18th Mar '16 4:05:20 PM by AngelusNox

I... guess there's no limit to that thing, then?

There are a few limitations to the conditions of talking the seat as the Chief of Staff, one of them is the requirement of having a college degree and the whether the nomination is valid or not. So any state level judge can shut down the nomination for breeching some rule.

But for now Lula is on a limbo where his status as the Chief of Staff is confirmed but not official.

http://www.elchiguirebipolar.net/17-03-2016/para-evitar-juicio-lula-es-nombrado-presidente-de-venezuela/

For those not spanish speakers, it pretty much a satire new like onion saying "To avoid trial, Lula is named president of venezuela" a this point they may well try.

The PMDB which is the main Worker's Party ally and base majority of the government's base just ruptured its relations with the Workers Party with de deepening of the political crisis. Meaning not only the PT lost most of the seats it counted on in the legislative but also all the ministries in which they put PMDB members to rule. Therefore losing most of its influence over the federal government.

Due to the presence of 69 politicians with privileged trialing, the Judge Moro sends the list containing the name of 300 politicians and state workers in a bribe scheme, to the Supreme Federal Court.

And the shit keeps getting higher and the light in the end of the tunnel is just a train coming in your direction.

I'm honestly afraid at what's going to happen to our country.

I don't trust anybody with the reins right now.

Whoever wins, we lose.

But in a Harsher In Hind Sight moment, I've discussed with a few friends a couple of years ago that the PMDB would abandon the PT as soon as they no longer had any use for it or when it was no longer politically viable to remain allied with the PT.

Even with how politically charged the country is, the next president will also suffer from investigations on day one.

edited 28th Mar '16 8:58:09 PM by AngelusNox

Let's be honest guys: The Worker's Party is about the worse we could possibly have. The others are bad, very bad, but this? This is utter catastrophe. We have to accept we're between bad and worse, and for the moment opt for the bad and not for the worse.

The worst we could possibly have to me is someone like Bolsonaro. The PT circus is embarrassing and they certainly shouldn't be in charge anymore after all of this, but people like him are literally the worst things about this country.

edited 6th Apr '16 7:26:07 PM by wehrmacht

Honestly I am very afraid of what the PMDB could pull but they have become the most hated political group after the PT so I don't see people rallying behind them either.

Bolsonaro seems to be transparent at least. He would fare much better if he played it safe, what makes me think he speaks his mind, and we can't say that about any other politician. Not that he is necessarily trustworthy, but at least doing better than anyone on that regard.

Also, his bad reputation is, in large part, due to mere scandalization and dishonest framing. He's just a conservative (a particularly rude one), and Argentina seems to be doing well with a conservative president. Brazil somehow created a deep fear of conservatism - maybe because our latest example of a conservative rule was a dictatorship.

I'm sorry but a politician who is that openly racist, mysogynistic, and homophobic (not to mention authoritarian given that he's supported the dictatorship) is not someone I want responsible for running this country in any way, shape or form. Sure, it's nice that he's transparent, but that's really the only thing he has going for him. The fact that he has any support at all shows the deep problems we have in this country still.

"Conservatism" has nothing to do with it, you can be a conservative politician like Barack Obama and not be a complete and total asshat and bigot, and I fail to see how anything he's said or done has been framed "dishonestly". He does a pretty good job of making himself look like an asshole all on his own.

edited 8th Apr '16 12:22:20 PM by wehrmacht

Just looking through his Wikipedia pages (in English and French, I can't read Portuguese, so this is all translated), he looks fucking terrible. Like, he believes in beating the gay out of kids, and is an apologist for the dictatorship. That doesn't scream, "sober, reasonable conservative" to me.

edited 8th Apr '16 12:23:43 PM by majoraoftime

Yeah he is basically worse than Donald Trump in my opinion, he has literally every single horrible backwards and bigoted view you can imagine on every single subject ever.

edited 8th Apr '16 12:26:22 PM by wehrmacht

Hardly, he is one of our top retrograde politicians, our Ted Cruz but not afraid to show his his misogyny and homophobia, so far he is implied to be racist as well.

But he is also one of the few politicians without any big and damning corruption scandal over his head. In the real of Brazilian politics everyone is a dirty asshole but he managed to be a clean asshole.

Now Comrade Dilma and the PT are crying foul due to one of our news papers making an article about her deteriorating mental state, hissy fits and lack of touch with reality, and claiming it is sexism to report her outbursts inside the Palace.

Yes shit did.

edited 8th Apr '16 2:10:12 PM by AngelusNox

Also, hasn't Dilma cancelled her trip to Greece for the lighting of the Olympic flame?