Suggestion: Stating The Simple Solution

Suggestion has more wit than current. What do you say?

It's certainly more compact, and that gets it a from me.

I personally prefer the current one because even while it has three panels it's clearer though it needs to be edited: having the Cartoon Network logo three times is distracting.

The magic of image editing.

I think the Batman pic is a much better illustration of the trope. Here's the trope description:

There is a problem. A dramatic, elaborate, and dangerous (and sometimes, pretty darn cool) solution is proposed to solve it. It's the Only Way! Then some other jerk points out that a much simpler Mundane Solution exists.

The current pic lacks the first part of trope ("a dramatic, elaborate, and dangerous solution is proposed to solve it") altogether, while the suggestion has it.

League of Super Redundant Heroes fits better IMO.

'Cause you're going home You're running free As only you would be If you never owed them anything

Not a fan of the Batman one because the used solution is known to work regardless, which people will know because Batman has enough Pop-Cultural Osmosis. The trope usually ends up with the simple solution being the right one because the more complicated one failed.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

^ I don't get your argument.

The bat-signal is a simple solution in itself, and it's been shown to be reliable in just about all Batman series it's been used in. It's not a "dramatic, elaborate, and dangerous (and sometimes, pretty darn cool)" solution, so it doesn't contrast to the simple solution the trope calls for. Maybe dramatic, and it's cool, but that's not enough.

edited 24th Sep '15 3:30:50 AM by AnotherDuck

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The current picture fits much better, the book Steven is reading states a simple solution with only two steps. The Batman pic does not because the officer is giving Gordon a suggestion.

edited 24th Sep '15 12:33:17 PM by TheTropper

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The problem is that that's not the entirety of the trope. As I understand it, the trope is: "Somebody suggests an epic and complex plan to achieve something, which is then undercut by somebody else suggesting a much easier and simple solution." The SU pic lacks the "undermining a complicated suggestion with something simple" aspect of the trope.

The suggestion isn't perfect, but I think it's more complete and concise than the current. You have the complicated solution (Set up a giant spotlight and then hope he responds in time) being undercut by the much more economical "just call him" suggestion. It's true that the Bat Signal is known to work, but it doesn't change the fact that the phone is still probably a faster and easier way of doing things.

edited 24th Sep '15 12:30:57 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Reaction Image Repository

I think the undermining is implied in the "he'll be here any minute" comment. Sure, the spotlight might eventually bring Batman around, but it still fails at being the quickest, most efficient way of signaling him. If Batman is, say, inside and not near a window, the police'll will have to wait until he goes outside or spots the signal through a window. So it meets the requirement of "complex plan failing where a simple plan wouldn't", since it fails at contacting Batman as fast as possible.

A spotlight isn't complicated. The trope isn't, "There's an ever-so-slightly more effective way to do this." It's, "That solution is ridiculously complicated and has a high chance of not working because it's so complicated. Let's do this very simple and easy thing instead."

The bat-signal works. It's been proven to work. A lot. There's no reason to do something else going by experience. Saying it's a legacy of a time before cellphones and that there are nowdays more practical ways of doing it is just a lampshade on how odd it sounds outside its own context. Because within its own context, it works perfectly fine.

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Plus Batman probably wouldn't hand out his number (or even have a Bat-cellphone) because people could track him with it.

Well, try to track him. But yeah.

edited 24th Sep '15 6:58:08 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

^ Bat phone

Huh.

The point still stands that the Bat-signal works perfectly fine (if outdated for the modern age), while the trope is about complicated solutions that don't work.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Still, going by the trope's definition, the current image is neither an example, nor does it present a good illustration. I think it should be pulled, regardless of replacement.

The original is borderline because although it doesn't illustrate the complicated plan, it does in its current form tend to make you think of a complicated plan before presenting the simple plan.

But it could do with a better image if we can find one.

The suggested image isn't better though.

Firstly, it suggests a "simple" plan which is in reality far more complicated than the Bat-Signal once you know that Batman has a secret identity which he needs to keep.

The Bat-Phone might seem to be a simpler solution, but so far as I know its appearance was confined to the campy TV series, and even there it was explicitly shown in one story that the only reason the police haven't traced the phone line is because they haven't tried, and it was mentioned in that same story that although Batman has some methods of throwing the police off the track, they won't work forever. All of this makes the Bat-Phone into a very complicated method, not a simple plan.

So I don't support changing the picture since it seems more like a lateral move, and I'd like a better image than the current if we can find it.

So far, I'm in Keep Until Better Image Suggested territory on this.

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According to the link, Bats gave Gordon an encrypted cell phone which replaced the signal competely in at least one continuity.

I actually think BUPKIS would be best until a really good image is found.

edited 25th Sep '15 2:50:59 AM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

I'm not completely against leaving the trope without an image, but I think the current image is (just barely) good enough to keep.

Also, anyone who understands how cell phones and encryption both work would understand that "giving him an encrypted cell phone" to avoid being traced is just movie technobabble.

In reality, encrypting a cell phone would actually make it easier to trace the calls, not harder, because the encryption would be easy to pick out of all the unencrypted signals. Encryption would only protect the contents of the transmission from being monitored by an unintended third party.

And anyway, isn't having to implement encryption a "complicated plan"?

Basically, I believe my original argument about phones and text messaging being the complicated plan under these circumstances still stands.

Absent-minded professor and Neverwinter Nights DM

So this xkcd is a decent example. (There's too many panels to use it all for a picture, but using panels 1, 5, and 7 gets the gist of it in a reasonable manner.)

That works.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

edited 26th Sep '15 7:32:43 AM by DeisTheAlcano

Good suggestion...I'd actually include 8 in the mix for the reaction shot.

1, 7, and 8, plus whatever looks good rearranged.

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The funny thing about this entire thread is that the OP isn't even about Batman. I guess nobody checked the Pot Hole in the image?

Anyway, I think the xkcd works best anyway.