Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

, I feel like you're conflating character and lineage. Would you hold Caligula's actions against Augustus?

Why is it invalidating their legacy? You're not defined by other people's actions. Even if they are your (already adult no less) children. What is this? Feudalism 2.0?

edited 22nd Nov '17 4:24:42 AM by Antiteilchen

If Caligula was Augustus's son and was just as bad as everyone made him out to be. And if Augustus's father was an evil tyrant that Augustus had to work hard to overcome and cleanse the stench left behind.

Here's a more accurate scenario: Imagine if Heinrich Himmler was your father, and you do everything in your power and resources to prove yourself that you are not like Himmler in any shape or form... only for your son/nephew to join a Neo-Nazi organization and slaughter countless lives. Then they'll say, "See, I told you that the bloodline of Himmler is evil. That grandson of his is proof. They are all bad people who brought nothing but misery" never mind all the goods things you'v done to redeem the family name.

edited 22nd Nov '17 4:32:58 AM by Shadao

If Himmler's son destroyed all V2s, turned his father in the last hour so he'd kill Hitler and ended the 3rd Reich, while Himmlers daughter would've been a leader of the German resistance; I think "Himmler's are all evil" would be a stretch, no? Even if the grandson turned out to be a neo-nazi.

You'd have to be very selective and base this opinion on logical fallacies.

edited 22nd Nov '17 5:20:19 AM by Antiteilchen

The idea that Kylo being the last of the Skywalkers and evil will tarnish their legacy doesn't really hold water, given that TFA is all about how amazing and indomitable the power of their legacy is despite his existence.

The power of the Skywalker legacy, which is strong even when Luke is AWOL and Leia is in hiding, and the fact that people who barely even know them still look to them for hope because of it, is one of the major themes of the movie. I'd go as far as to say it might end up being the entire point of the sequel trilogy.

edited 22nd Nov '17 5:27:51 AM by KnownUnknown

Also condemning people based on their bloodline while talking about the Nazis... Ehhhhh.

A rather bad hope really when the cause of everything is also their own failure.

It’s a wasted legacy really, the galaxy is really only going to remember Vader and Ren instead of a failed politician and a failure of a Jedi who couldn’t even start an academy without all his students getting killed.

edited 22nd Nov '17 5:32:09 AM by Memers

Only if you selectively apply fridge logic. In universe, everyone's still pretty devoted to them (to the point where the antagonists are afraid of them for that reason), and out of universe the writing of the series is pretty obviously still invested in continuing to have them shape the galaxy for the better.

That's outright false. Did you watch the movie? Everyone's in awe of the legend of Luke Skywalker in the film, and the only reason it's mostly thought to be only a legend is because he chose to leave, not because someone else sabotaged his legacy. Leia got some problems for being Vader's daughter in one of the tie-in books, but in the film itself her name is practically all it takes to spur people into action. Meanwhile, only a handful of people even know who Kylo Ren is.

edited 22nd Nov '17 5:37:49 AM by KnownUnknown

They have no reason to, they are both miserable failures and Luke is basically just a legend or a fairy tale to the masses.

This new EU just shit on both of them to the point where you could barely call them competent.

Again, only if you selectively apply fridge logic. You could say the same thing about Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, etc, etc. But most people in the audience don't, and nobody in-universe does, so it's only in the realm of fans who choose to treat them that way.

edited 22nd Nov '17 5:41:23 AM by KnownUnknown

The only reason why fans haven’t connected that because they have hope that Rey is the relation actually gone right and can right things so that the Skywalker family isn’t entirely a miserable failure like it seemingly is now.

Especially when they are pushing the numbered movies as the ‘Skywalker family saga’.... yeah a family of failures and mass murders who committed genocide.

If Rey isn’t a skywalker it’s going to really ruin a lot of people’s views on the franchise.

As I said before, the fanbase as a whole will likely get over it - the idea that people all over will quit caring about the Skywalker if Rey isn’t one is definitely Opinion Myopia: the portion of the fanbase whose investment in Rey being a Skywalker defines their investment in the sequel trilogy is, thus far, a Vocal Minority. Audiences in general don’t react that way to not having the things they expect happen: they roll with the story and become invested in the new directions and twists a story gives them.

It’s the same reason why things like massive ship wars and backlashes against jossed theories or killed off fan favorites don’t make an impact on series’ widespread appeal - at least not on their own. Some fans care primarily about the story doing exactly what hey want it to do and will react negatively, but most care about following the story itself.

edited 22nd Nov '17 6:13:15 AM by KnownUnknown

Not to mention, that you to simplify the implications of their actions and reputations and you seem very cynical when you think about that when it's very true yet.

They could go for a twist and have Ray as his adopted daughter

Hardly, I would say a lot of fans who grew up with the franchise have that issue. Especially those who were actually into legends and actually seen their favorites / the ones they grew up with actually be competent and had at least 1 kid to continue the legacy.

Rey needs to be a Skywalker, they have written themselves into a hole.

Well that’s this whole EU in a nutshell really. Everyone turned out to be useless from the entire New Republic on down.

edited 22nd Nov '17 6:25:01 AM by Memers

Fans who grew up with the series had problems with lots of things, but most of them are still here, still ready to see what comes next.

If Star Wars’ audience survived the prequels, it can survive a theory being jossed.

edited 22nd Nov '17 6:24:50 AM by KnownUnknown

The Prequels had hope, we knew where it was going and at the end it would be Return Of The Jedi. Anakin was always Luke’s father and such.

Now Return Of The Jedi is pretty much the opposite of that honestly, as that optimistic ending is just smashed with a nuke. Made way WAY worse if Rey isn’t a Skywalker.

edited 22nd Nov '17 6:34:28 AM by Memers

Here's another thing to consider. Star Wars will go on past episode 9. In time we'll have a 10 and so on. I highly doubt Disney wants to eliminate the possibility of future Skywalkers showing up.

Even so, you shouldn't deny the fact that both Luke and Leia still have a second chance to mend the Skywalker name into something much more.

Remember, even when darkness returns, a spark of light can ignite the others to illuminate the universe once more.

And maybe this time, for a much longer time.

edited 22nd Nov '17 6:35:53 AM by Luigisan98

If Kylo is the only Skywalker kid then it’s too late for that.

I see no reason to indulge other people's stupidity on that matter. If they don't like it because they're illogical, it's on them. Fuck them.

If its revealed that Rey is not a Skywalker, will you not go see Episode 9?

Dude, Rey being a Skywalker wouldn't even make a difference in how the story may go. Just know what the others have said and try to think more carefully about it instead of being part of a vocal minority.

Sort of sounds like Poe's shaping up to be kind of an honorary Organa/Solo, so there's that.

In all seriousness, though, Rey probably is Luke's daughter. It's gonna be one of those twists where you wonder why there even needed to be a twist that J.J Abrams is so fond of. I'm not saying that I really need that to happen myself, but I'd be more surprised if it didn't, at this point.

If that's the case don't blame Abrams for keeping it a secret. He said he wanted to do another big reveal in TFA and was talked out of it.