Duplicate Trope: Immortal Infertility

As someone recently pointed out in the Lost And Found, this looks suspiciously like an unfinished version of Immortal Procreation Clause.

I'd suggest a merge, using the straight-to-the-point Immortal Infertility as the primary title and the description from Immortal Procreation Clause.

I can support this, if they're that similar.

If this goes through, Immortal Procreation Clause can become a redirect.

Agreed that a merge is appropriate.

Merge, yes.

Keep split.

Right now, Immortal Procreation Clause meanders in the description, and the "trope" is "sometimes immortals have biological children". A trope is not about " sometimes". We can effectively split two related ideas:

• Immortal Infertility — immortal characters are unable to have children.
• Immortal Procreation Clause — immortal characters are socially discouraged from having children.

They are sister tropes, but not the same trope.

The difference is basically whether it's a moral dilemma, or a biological one. I don't think the difference between "impossible" and "almost impossible" is notable in this case.

I think it's more like:

• Immortal Procreation Clause — the supertrope. Immortal characters can't have immortal children at the rate mortals do, for one reason or another. The meta reason is to avoid an overcrowding problem.
  • Immortal Infertility — subtrope. Immortal characters can't have children (or can have them very, very rarely) due to biological reasons.
  • (Missing Subtrope 1) — subtrope. Immortal characters only give birth to mortal children.
  • (Missing Subtrope 2) — subtrope. Immortal characters can have immortal children at a normal rate, but are discouraged from doing so by their society's laws or traditions.

There is a third one I think

• An immortal or ageless character is made that way while she is pregnant thus the fetus is permanently stuck in fetal development.

Or she keeps miscarrying the same baby every day. I've seen that variation too.

Oh now that one is horrific.

Where would those made immortal but were made far too young so that no matter how Really 700 Years Old they are they still haven't hit puberty and can't procreate? If they were older they could.

The examples I can think of tend to attempt to find substitutes in appropriately childish ways like creating living dolls and such as companions / children.

That one is horrific, but I've seen it at least three times. All in otherwise disturbing works.

I think can't breed because didn't hit maturity is a thing.

i feel like all these can be covered in just Immortal Procreation Clause.

Different series make different rules about how immortality works. IF there are enough examples of the subdivisions then we can start thinking about splitting them off into subtropes. (Like how Immortal Infertility already exists.)

edited 1st Oct '15 8:10:08 AM by acrobox

I agree with you. The vast majority of these should just be under the supertrope.

• Immortal Procreation Clause — Super-Trope: Immortal characters can't have immortal children at the rate mortals do, for one reason or another. (The meta reason is to avoid an overcrowding problem.)
• Immortal Infertility — Sub-Trope. Immortal characters can't have children (or can have them very, very rarely) due to a biological inability to conceive.

I can live with this as the split.

I agree with 12. We should first create the supertrope and subtrope outlined in 14. After that we can try YKTTW'ing other subtropes (e.g. those suggested by me and 8-9-10-11).

edited 1st Oct '15 9:12:16 AM by Rjinswand

Also don't forget to remove the redirect from Immortality Infertility to Immortal Procreation Clause.

Two separate tropes. I like what's been said above.

Locking per New Year Purge.