Romance: where the heck's the point of view?

I started thinking about this recently and thought this might be worth discussing.

The question is this: in a romance, from whose point of view do you envision the characters?

The typical answer, in my mind, would be "from a third-person point of view," where we see the couple together. However, why is it that even if we're reading a book where it's narrated by the character in the romance, do we still see two people? Wouldn't the more "narrative-appropriate" thing be to see the character's significant other alone, speaking to the reader as if the reader was the character?

I mean, I know it's weird to picture the self in the point-of-view of the character especially if the two characters are being intimate (or maybe that's actually more typical than I think?), but I'm wondering whether this idea of seeing a couple through a third-person lens is acculturation through watching films where the two people are on screen together.

Let me know what you all think!

I think it's an acceptable break from immersion considering the reasons why a character will love another is almost never going to be the same reasons the reader would love someone else. It's still an emotionally charged moment so we feel happy for the characters, we empathize with them.

Even if it's in first person it still gives off a bit of a diary feel, like someone is reading to us how they feel because once again the emotions aren't ours, we accept them and immerse ourselves in them but I don't think immersion alone can expand to the degree of replacement. Just my two cents though.

The film theory is interesting though, though actually getting enough people for control and experimental groups would probably be close to impossible.

If I recall correctly, it's not unknown for people to remember scenes from their lives from an external perspective, seeing themselves in the scene rather than seeing what they previously saw; what you describe may in part be an extension of that. Otherwise, it may simply be that there's an unconscious awareness of not being the character in the story, even when it's related in the first-person, which may affect how one experiences the events of the story.

If this is only occurring with romantic scenes, it may be that the relationship itself, and the feelings experienced on both sides, are more salient than in other types of scene, and thus a perspecive that allows both parties to be seen is more effective.

Generally, I try to envision it from the same viewpoint as I am using for that story, be it in first person, in objective or limited third person, in second person, or whatever other viewpoint it is.

The story I am writing now uses a limited third person narrator, so that is the viewpoint I'd use if I were to add any romance to it.

Is it because I am biased due to exposure to modern media, maybe movies and maybe something else?

In my case, not really. Maybe there are people for whom it is true, but in my case the reason why I use this particular viewpoint is fairly easy to explain. You see, a limited third person narrator is pretty much a first person narrator, only with "I" being changed to "he", "she", or whatever else, and in my story there are interludes told from the perspective of other characters, which means that choosing a limited third person viewpoint over a first person viewpoint has the advantage of making it clear what are the identities of the characters in those interludes. Of course, I think it wouldn't be hard for any potential readers to guess those, but it's always good to avoid confusion.

And using a second person narrator is, in my opinion, not really bad for writing romance. But the second person viewpoint requires that the reader can identify with the character somewhat. And that means either making the story ambiguous in which case I find that a first person viewpoint is usually better, or giving the reader some way to influence the way the story goes which generally means it's not a simple story but rather a "choose your own adventure" thing.

Generally, I think that a first person narrator works well for short stories, a second person narrator for "choose your own adventure" stuff, a limited third person for longer stories, and any other viewpoints are a matter of personal choice or their applicability to individual works.

edited 12th Mar '15 4:56:55 PM by Kazeto

So what you're basically saying is that we're not truly looking through a first person lens even though it's written in first person? I'm not really sure what "acceptable break from immersion" means, but I'm assuming it's leaving the point of view of that particular character since we can't really relate to him/her?

I think that testing it would be impractical because I really can't think of anyone who wouldn't have been exposed to visual media at some point (there are people out there of course but gathering many of them together might be difficult).

Essentially I think that when such a personal (to the character) scene comes up we recognize that the character is not us without actually breaking willing suspension of disbelief, hence the dairy effect I mentioned. We recognize it but it doesn't pull us out the same way as a plot hole or an impossible (for the universe) act. Once again just my opinion.

Yeah, I don't think you could get together a large enough sample size from those who haven't been exposed to media and maintain unbiased similarity to the control group.

edited 12th Mar '15 7:40:28 PM by Slysheen

>> "So what you're basically saying is that we're not truly looking through a first person lens even though it's written in first person? I'm not really sure what "acceptable break from immersion" means, but I'm assuming it's leaving the point of view of that particular character since we can't really relate to him/her?"

Attraction, be it physical or emotional attraction, is something that varies from person to person. If the character from whose perspective we are seeing it is noticeably different from the reader, and the character's object of attraction is someone with attraction to whom the reader cannot relate, then the whole romance thing feels a bit ... oily, when presented in a way that is supposed to make the reader think they are a part of it.

That being said, that's about the second person viewpoint. As far as the first person viewpoint goes (that is, the character themself narrates the story), I maintain that it is most likely because limited third person viewpoint is more convenient even thought it is essentially the same but with "I" changed to "he" or "she" or any other pronoun of that sort.

Ah, got it.

Ok, so using first person is like using a third person limited. And yeah, I think for any second person mode of narrative (heck, even in video games where personality of the main character is irrelevant) that seems to be the case.

The general consensus I'm getting so far is that we look at romance from a third person point of view because it makes the most "natural" sense (otherwise we'd be a character that we can't really relate to).

Depends on why the reader would ship it. See Shipping.

If I read something as if the character's significant other is speaking to me-the-reader, then it could either go that I identify as the addressee of the work (especially if the character that is speaking had me interested In That Way at the first line and/or the addressee is described in a way that I can relate to) or it could be voyeuristic, like it was obviously meant for somebody else and I'm just reading somebody talk aloud to themselves or some mysterious figure off in the corner of my mind.

Which way I take it is not going to be in control of the writer, really. It's not a direction I consciously decide to take, either: my devious mind could even flip a switch halfway through.

Something that I've observed in some works of fanfiction is writers sometimes repeating the story from both characters' points of view but talking about the other in the 'ship in third person. I don't know if Midnight Sun (Twilight from Edward Cullen's perspective) was supposed to be an official version of that.

Either way, I think that gives the option for the reader to either watch other people live through a story and be entertained by it (as a matchmaker, or simply as an audience member), or to live the story vicariously (as in to fully identify.) I'm sure there's in-betweens and other reasons to ship people, and as many other ways to write that would cater to that.

With some fanfictions in another fandom, I then observe that the person from whose point of view the piece is…essentially disappears. It's as if many writers intuitively know not to bring too much of the character's personality into the first person in case that distracts the reader from the fantasy of embodying that character and thus making it with the object of desire. So, in a strange way, becoming the subject made the narrating character disappear!

edited 13th Mar '15 1:50:22 AM by Faemonic