Suicide Squad Movie

It would be an interesting study, just like with Bv S, another cut will most likely not solve the script issues.

According to David Ayer, no.

90 percent of BVS's apparent script issues were fixed by the Ultimate Edition, because unlike a lot of recuts it didn't add any missing subplots but restored context so that the main story is better understood. It's main script issues were what wasn't changed, specifically how the third act is just racing through to the climax.

Giving the disparate cuts that were thrown around for Suicide Squad, I would not be surprised if a number of script issues were fixed in a cleaner cut. Even Enchantress, her motivations and the swirly light show could turn things around just by adding more context.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:48:02 PM by KJMackley

Having June's possession by the Enchantress before the credits could have acted as nice Cold Open, I think. Starting with Will Smith and then Margot Robbie acts as a fine reminder of the fact that they're famous (and why, to be fair to them), but we already know that, we've bought our tickets. As the main villain of an ensemble, I feel like we need June/Enchantress to act as a focal point, and a big part of that is presumably meant to be her relationship with Rick Flag, since no one else on the team other than Amanda Waller even so much as talks to June pre-Enchantress— I can't even remember now if she was with them at Belle Reve, the timeline jumped around so much.

In a way having June as a Decoy Protagonist and fake viewpoint character could've made a nice twist for those who weren't fans of the comic (and those few who hadn't seen the copious advertising, or at least weren't paying attention). It also would've helped the plot seem less generic, if they were to use that opening portion to try and build up both June's relationship with Rick— set it up as a more generic action movie, then subvert it hard.

edited 12th Sep '16 9:04:11 PM by Unsung

That might work with a more traditional narrative, but I kind of liked that the movie kept the villain a mystery until things started going bad. Opening the film with her places the emphasis on the villain. The current opening may be "Here are the stars" but it also gets us further into the tone of the film.

I would argue that June is shown to be possessed almost as soon as she first appears onscreen, and every member of the Suicide Squad is already a supervillain, so I don't think it would have made her stand out all that much. And even if she wasn't the first thing we see, I still think we needed more time and development with June for the story as a whole to work. (I would actually have preferred to start with Amanda Waller at the dinner, but someone mentioned earlier in the thread that one cut started with June being possessed.)

Reading the novelization currently. I'm still in the general first act where the Squad's being introduced. Will update as I keep reading, but so far the scene order is:

• June being an archaeologist. She's had nightmares with a figure in it that looks just like her telling her to come to this jungle, or she will die. She doesn't want to die, so she goes along with it. In the temple, which she falls into, she sees 2 statues and feels compelled to break one of them. That's when Enchantress possesses her
• Next we get to Joker's paramilitary guys invading Arkham. They kill a bunch of inmates and guards. Frost takes Harley to Joker and Joker is pissed at her for giving him shock therapy and burning away what little memories he had, so he zaps her until she's a drooling mess. Frost thinks she's hot.
• Next we cut to that scene with Deadshot and Angelo. It's largely the same as in the movie, except we get to see Deadshot setting up. He gives a bunch of homeless people some burrito coupons to clear them out of the area so he can make clean shots without anyone getting in the way. He also sets up the metal plates around key corners so his bullets can ricochet into the mob snitch.
• Then we cut back to the club. Largely the same as in the movie. Major difference is it spells out Joker's interaction more. Basically, Joker lets Harley dance, but anyone that looks at her too long gets killed. Monster T was guilty of doing that, so Joker plays a little game with him. Same as the movie, except Monster T kills himself instead of Joker doing it because he thinks Joker would torture him first. Joker is pissed at Harley for making him kill someone that pulled in as much cash as T.
• Next we're back with Deadshot. The interaction with his daughter is played out more. It's clear that her mom's a prostitute in this version, and Deadshot doesn't want to take his daughter by force because he knows that will turn the kid against him. Anyway, his visitation ends and Zoe drives off with her mom. After the car is out of view, he turns into an alley and says he's thankful that "you waited until she was gone". Batman comes down and they fight a little. It's brutal. Batman shackles him and flies off before the cops get there.
• We cut to the chase scene. Right after the club fiasco, Joker's so pissed he feels like he needs to drive, and he's speeding through the streets with Harley insisting he go faster ("Do it, Puddin!"). He's mad that Harley keeps testing him and causing him to kill his men. At one point, he drives the car through a mall, but unluckily doesn't get to run anyone over. He decides he's going to slam the car into a wall, but changes his mind when he sees Batman is now chasing him. Rest plays out like the film. Most significant change is at the end Batman says "Joker took something precious from me. Now it's my turn," as he's captured Harley.
• Harley at Belle Reve. The scene where she first interacts with Griggs plays out almost exactly like the movie. No major differences.
• Deadshot next. He's just training in his cell. The punching bag is just his mattress tied with his sheet.
• Next we go to Rick Flag, GQ and the rest of his team. They break into a building to take down someone. Rick kicks down the door with his gun ready, but all he sees is a woman sitting in a tub of black liquid with a pentagram behind her head, crying. That's how he meets June. Waller introduces herself and says she can help her, so June joins.
• Then Diablo, who's in a dark room with the fire in the shape of his girl dancing in his palm.
• Back to Waller. She's at the restaurant and proposing her plan to the same two guys as in the film. The only major difference is they talk about Superman like he's alive and treat him with a lot less reverence (maybe it was a late script change that Supes was dead).
• Back to Harley, who's being force-fed and thinking that Joker will come rescue her eventually. Griggs strokes her thigh while she's being fed "chocolate flavored crap".
• Back to Deadshot, who's threatening Griggs because he's giving him food not even fit for rabid mongrels. Griggs threatens him a lot.
• Now Croc, who they throw a goat down to. He doesn't seem angry, or upset. He's just living.
• Waller at the Pentagon is the next scene. The novelization makes this scene clearer, and much better as a result. Remember in the movie where one of the guys opens up a classified document on the Enchantress, then Enchantress glances at him and it doesn't seem like it's anything that important? In the novelization, the same thing happens, but Waller quickly shuts it and hopes Enchantress didn't see that her brother's statue was in their possession. It's the same plot point as the movie, but fuck does that make it clearer. At least for me. Everything else plays out pretty much the same.
• Back to Reve. Waller, June and Flag arrive. The Deadshot weapon demonstration happens, same as in the movie.

I also just came back from seeing Squad after reading this first 5th of the novel. It made the movie much more comprehensible to me. It's like a 10x worse case than Phantom Menace (above average film) and its novelization (great novel).

edited 12th Sep '16 1:49:05 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

They kill a bunch of inmates

Any known Batman villains amongst those casualties? Some C-List Fodder like Killer Moth or Signalman, or just generic inmates?

Also, who wrote the novelization?

Novelization is written by Marv Wolfman. You might know him.

And no, no named characters die. Just a bunch of crazed Arkham inmates and security.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

The ultimate cut fixes the editing issues, but not the narrative itself. For each plot hole it covers it creates two new ones. I think it will be similar with SS, no matter what they change around, you have still Harley with a baseball bat going up against a goddess.

Now, now, DC has a long and proud tradition of regular people going against impossible odds armed with everyday blunt objects◊

And being completely ineffectual with said baseball bat. What's your point?

Edit: Forgot to add. One of the guards in Belle Reve has a prosthetic hand because Croc bit off his real one.

edited 12th Sep '16 1:34:27 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

Marv Wolfman ?

That's serious talent . I always figured these things went to marketing interns

Aaron Cash?

Marv Wolfman also wrote the Crisis on Infinite Earths novelization, Denny O'Neil wrote the ones for The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, Peter David wrote those for the Spider-Man Raimi trilogy, and Chris Claremont wrote X-Men 2's.

That would've been great. The guy's name is Gerry Moench.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

Dixon and Moench. Heh.

Did they have a Grant to complete the trifecta? Especially since, of all three Batman writers during that period, Grant is the only one Wolfman actually co-wrote comics with.

"Joker is pissed at her for giving him shock therapy and burning away what little memories he had"

"Joker is pissed at Harley for making him kill someone that pulled in as much cash as T."

"He's mad that Harley keeps testing him and causing him to kill his men. "

Well this scene are intersting, it seen they set Harley and Joker as high destructive couple, rather than Joker moving Harley around, I can feel both would kill each other in any moment.

I intersting dinamic I most said

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Might want to actually read the novelization of this. That sounds pretty sweet.

The very premise of the team falls apart if you're assuming the only people they will be fighting are gods and goddesses. What can Deadshot do? What can Croc do? What can Boomerang do? What can Katana do? In one scene Flag even argues that they are irrelevant compared to well trained black ops team, while Waller brings up the US Navy partnering with the Mafia because they had resources and infrastructure that the government couldn't replicate.

Task Force X is about being expendable and deniable. You find Slipknot's headless body in Midway City and no one would be surprised some criminals stuck around to loot the empty shops. Harley isn't just a chick with a bat, she's an expendable criminal. I wasn't hugely impressed with the Suicide Squad in Arrow because they were sent on generic black ops missions. I preferred the film making the threat supernatural because then Task Force X serves a specialized purpose. "Task Force X" in Justice League Unlimited was a great episode because it is a type of mission the Squad would be assigned to pull off.

Damn, I wish this was in the movie. It would have made that scene so much better.

See? I told you guys that they would still be doing this movie without Superman's death.

It also makes it clearer about why Enchantress didn't go rogue before that: she didn't know where her brother's statue was. Why the hell they didn't leave this scene in, I don't know.

It would have been funnier if it was written by John Ostrander.

So he's a cross between Gerry Conway and Dough Moench?

Continuing my read through gives that thing Shia said about Rick Flag being a meatier role at first some weight, because he's in this a lot and we get to see his relationship with June blossom.

Promised Edit:

• Deadshot goes to his cell to see a steak dinner and a real punching bag waiting for him. He realizes that it didn't matter if he turned down their offer or not; they already decided for him.
  • Flag goes to meet Croc. Same interaction as the movie, except Flag notes he looks different from his mugshots, indicating he's still mutating.
• Cut to Joker laying in the circle of guns and knives. He's "drunk and miserable". Every weapon around him is something he could use to kill himself; he never knew he'd miss her at all.
  • "He didn't think he'd ever miss her. After all, she offered him nothing beyond total subservience and unconditional love. Traits he was absolutely certain could easily be replaced by adopting some mangy, flea-bitten shelter dog.
  • But finding another sex-starved, mallet-wielding psychopath didn't turn out to be quite that easy. Even though he had wanted to take a drill to her head every time she called him Puddin' or Mr. J, he actually craved that now.
  • Where are you, you Looney Tune? Your Puddin' wants you
    • Frost enters the room, like in the movie, and is nervous because he's unsure how Joker will react. He swears on his life his information is good; Joker replies "If you're going to swear, do it on something that matters."
• June scene. She's not sure how to feel about Flag, but he doesn't get close to anyone, not even the soldiers in his squad. Flag joins her and they talk and bond, scene ending with Flag kissing her. Also, it's revealed she can see and hear what Enchantress is doing when Enchantress is in control of the body.
• Back to the prison. Flag shows Diablo the prison riot he was part of. Diablo insists that person immolating people is dead and he's done with that life. He isolates himself and tries to bury his past, and hates when people bring it up. Rest is the same as the movie. June is at an office in the prison with Flag after Diablo refuses him, and there's more relationship stuff. Waller comes into the room and says "I hope you two are using protection. Wouldn't want you spawning the anti-christ." Waller makes June leave, and she and Flag have the same conversation as in the movie where he says "... psychotic antisocial freak..."
• Casino scene. Griggs there and it plays out the same as in the movie. Joker, Frost, all of that good stuff.
• Back to Flag and June in their hotel room. Flag wakes up in the middle of the night, but unlike the movie he doesn't eat any chicken (maybe Joel was just hungry?). Basically, same as the movie, except Enchantress verbally threatens Flag after she takes over from June when he tries to call Waller.
• Enchantress, now intrigued about the aforementioned photo of her brother's statue, goes to Waller's home. Waller is passed out from a night of downing a wine bottle alone. Enchantress looks through Waller's possessions and find it.
• Cut to a subway where "Gerard Davis" is using the bathroom. Enchantress slams his head into a mirror, everything plays out same as the movie, except she and her brother speak longer.
• Cut back to the apartment with Enchantress returning. Flag points the gun at her forehead, but Enchantress says he won't pull the trigger for fear of hurting June. She undoes the loin cloth and Rick can't resist her, but seeing him in danger makes June start fighting for control. Enchantress becomes angry that she isn't powerful enough yet to have permanent control, so she gives June back her body. June, like in the movie, is crying and begging Rick to kill her if it ever comes to that.
• Back to Incubus. Exactly the same as the movie, except we get more of his thoughts. Basically, he's a momma's boy. Well, sister's boy... sister's bro. Whichever. But yeah, he thinks she knows best and stuff.
• Back to Flag. He's sitting in a chair by the bed and watching June sleep. He gets a text from Waller telling him it's mission time.
• At Belle Reve, the prison guards round up the inmates. A bit more detailed than the montage in the film, but pretty much the same. This is also where they get the bombs in their necks.
  • Griggs gets Deadshot, but beats him with a handgun first. Deadshot takes it because there's guys with guns trained on him, and he'll wait for his chance to get back at Griggs.
  • Everyone else is identical to the film. Just like in the movie, Griggs slips Harley the phone.
• Now to Joker at the lab. Scene plays out exactly like the movie, except the exploding basket doesn't kill the guard; only knock him out. Joker comes out of the truck with a ball-peen hammer and beats the guard's head in until he's dead. Rest is accurate to the film, and it's noted by Frost that Joker hires insane people to put on those costumes and they're not known for subtlety.

ACT II

• At the military camp, Flag arrives and is introduced to Edwards, who goes by the nickname "GQ," so this is their first meeting. GQ's guys are SEALS and it's noted that GQ is one of the best in the military.
• The Skwad arrives, pretty much the exact same way as the movie. If you've been following, you'll notice Captain Boomerang and Slipknot didn't get any mentions: that's because this is where they are first mentioned in the story.
  • Boomerang shows up the same as in the movie and does the same stuff. Flag tells GQ to be careful because Boomerang could take down half his squad if given one of his razor Boomerangs. Boomerang greets Flag like he knows him and says he has no idea why he's there, and the last thing he remembers is a red streak hitting him out of nowhere (we don't see this scene). Flag says he was robbing a bank. Rest plays out like the movie.
  • Slipknot arrives the same way, except he punches a guy instead of a girl. (This change might be due to the casting of Adam Beach. The novel makes note that Slipknot is "a mountain of a man," while Beach really isn't that big)
  • Squad arms themselves like in the movie. Boomerang doesn't have a pink unicorn.
• Katana gets introduced the same as in the movie, except Flag doesn't mention the sword or the soul-stealing. We don't get a recap of her backstory.
  • Funny exchange where Harley says to Deadshot, "She named herself after her weapon?" Then Deadshot points at his own chest, then nods at Captain Boomerang, then Harley shuts up.
  • Boomerang asks how much he's getting paid for this mission.
    • Harley interjects and tells Flag she should at least be making 79% of what they're paying Boomerang since she's a woman.
  • Harley asks Croc why he's on this mission. Croc replies he's doing it because fighting is more fun that living in a barred sewer.
  • Harley is basically talking to lighten the mood and get everyone's spirits up, so she looks at Deadshot next. Sensing that's her motive, he says he's just in it to see his daughter again.
  • She asks Slipknot next, but he only says he's doing it to have his ropes on and his shackles off.
  • Diablo's turn. He doesn't answer, so she psychoanalyzes him and determines he's just there looking for a way to die. He doesn't deny it, but says he won't be dragging them down with him because someone like him only deserves to die alone.
  • Harley says the six or seven of them are in it together.
    • Croc corrects her to six. (Because fuck that Rick Flag guy)
• Next we get into Flag's head. He's looking down at a destroyed building in Midway and remembering that in high school he had a shitty job there, and it was the place he lost his virginity in a broom closet with Shirley something (her name is said, but I don't remember it).
  • Diablo is looking at all the fires raging down below and is having bad memories coming back to him that involve fires burning people to death. Their screams still haunt him.
  • While everyone was being contemplative, Harley was secretly texting Joker to pick her up. He says "I will." Deadshot is the only one to see. He nods, indicating he'll keep her secret.
• Now cut to Frost, Joker and their men in a car. Frost looks at Joker, who's buried in his phone texting someone. He notices Joker's eyes are watery. Maybe the boss is crying? Nah. He asks Joker is he's okay, nonetheless, but Joker waves him off.
• Back to the chopper, Flag and Deadshot have the same conversation like in the movie. The plane gets shot down, and Slipknot is about to escape, causing Katana to draw her sword. As the chopper is spiraling, Flag warns him against doing anything because if he gets killed by Katana his soul will be trapped. Crashes like in the movie.
• On the ground, Harley tries having a conversation with Katana, but it goes nowhere and Katana threatens her. Boomerang sees Katana is distracted by Harley and approaches Slipknot with his plan. Slipknot dies same as in the movie.
  • After, Harley says to him that she knows he never planned on escaping, He just wanted to test the bombs. Boomer denies, but she tells him she and Deadshot are planning on making an escape, and he says he's in.
    • He tries to convince Diablo, but Diablo isn't having any of it. He convinces Croc, but still gets slammed into a car.
• We cut back to 26 hours ago when the attack on Midway just started. Apparently the death toll is 1.5 million and all the bridges to the city have been destroyed.

Will add more as I read more.

edited 14th Sep '16 3:30:22 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

• First engagement with the Eyes of the Adversary plays out like in the movie, but a lot of it is expanded. I'm guessing this is because it's a novel, rather than it being this lengthy in the script.
  • Diablo is the first to identify the EA and that they're not really men.
  • Waller is watching the battle unfold. It's not at all hidden from the reader that she's in Midway City, even though it was a twist in the movie.
  • The EA take a shit ton of bullets to kill and are resistant to damage. The only ways to put them down are smashing their heads into tiny pieces or decapitation. Bullets are less useful than, say, something like Harley's baseball bat.
  • Everyone is initially overwhelmed except Croc, who dispatches them brutally and easily.
  • This is the first place Boomerang's unicorn is mentioned. It's called "Pinky" and he keeps it in his pocket as a good luck charm. He's had it since childhood.
  • Deadshot has his "How I Cut and Run" scene like in the movie, but Croc and Harley have big action sequences too.
    • The first bit of the Squad bonding with the soldiers comes when one of GQ's men gives Deadshot a handshake for how much of a badass he was there.
  • Boomerang is pissed off by Diablo doing nothing. They have the same exchange like in the movie, except it makes more sense here because the rest of Boomerang's dialogue isn't cut:

• GQ confronts Flag, pissed that ten of his SEALS died. He and his men were told that Midway was under attack by terrorists, not monsters. He presses Flag, and even though Flag threatens him he stands his ground. Flag relents and says they have some vague theories for what the Eyes of the Adversary are, but only Enchantress knows for sure.

• We cut to Enchantress turning a soldier into an EA. Same as the movie, except this soldier is one of GQ's men that we'd been introduced to earlier.
• Back to the battlefield, we see Croc and Deadshot talking. Croc gives him a list with a bunch of names and says when they're back in Gotham, he wants all of those guys dead. Deadshot says his services don't come cheap. Croc asks him if he remembers a client that asked for him to cut out a target's heart and mail it to him. Deadshot says he remembers that sick bastard. Croc says he WAS that sick bastard, so he's good for the money. I found this interaction pretty funny.
• They come to the building Waller's in, like the movie, just some added dialogue. Harley goes up the elevator and fights two EA, like the movie. They have the shootout inside the building with more Eyes of the Adversary, like in the movie. Where it deviates is instead of Diablo roasting the EA with Deadshot's prodding, it's instead GQ firing a grenade launcher.
  • Deadshot does try to piss Diablo off for not doing anything again though. He says the EA were men and women once, with families and they just killed them all. Then says Diablo has some knowledge about that. Diablo starts getting mad and his fingers become flames, but then Deadshot quickly apologizes and Diablo retreats to somewhere he can be alone to calm down. His power is tied to his anger, which is why he keeps to himself. This was said in the movie, but it's illustrated clearer here. Namely, the fact that he has very little control over his power.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

There's a lot of little details here that would've made the movie better if they were explicit rather than something about which we were left to speculate. I like that Slipknot's not the only one who doesn't get a flashback (it singles him out less) and knowing the Eyes' A) name and B) specific weakpoint would make them more substantial as an enemy. You also get a better sense of Harley testing the waters here, playing everyone in case she needs them later. The point that Croc is not just a brutal killer but a successful criminal/crime boss in his own right does a lot for making him come off as a more rounded villain/protagonist, too. And Diablo *not* using his powers might have helped his arc feel more complete, like it had more of a beginning even though we only meet him in Belle Reve. That's a reveal that could be played up.

Meanwhile, not playing Waller's presence as a twist is the right move. It was a reveal in the movie, but it never goes anywhere, since Deadshot just walks right in anyway (because of course he would). In general the structure of the novel sounds a lot better— being mostly chronological, each scene can serve its own purpose instead of always being relied upon to explain a previous one. I like the dossier narration as a Tarantino-esque framing device, but it requires a certain...conviction to use well.

edited 17th Sep '16 11:56:32 AM by Unsung

Yeah, I have a feeling that the novel is based on the original script done by David Ayer. I would have loved to see that movie.

I don't like the movie much, but I fucking love this novel. The characters that were so entertaining in the film actually get time to breathe here.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."