Transformers: Robots in Disguise

That's the one. The Anime was Galaxy Force in Japan, and Cybertron in the states.

Cybertron never really counted as a cartoon.

The only saga that was technically both a cartoon and anime separately is Beast Wars, but Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo aren't related to the original Beast Wars at all anyway outside of the name at best. Due to the characters that show up, it would only work as a continuation of Transformers Victory.

The regular Beast Wars(which leads into Beast Machines) is set at the entire end of the actual overall series. There's no direct sequel at all, unless Beast Wars is supposed to split into two potential stories. But I don't think it was clarified when it happens. It could actually lead into Transformers: Robots in Disguise(Anime), which is weird, since that had Megatron and Galvatron as the same person(they're different people in Beast Wars II/Neo). Really, the whole Transformers saga is weird due to the Japanese and English storylines being different.

It'd be easier to connect more if Galvatron and Megatron were never different people, but... yeah. Megatron does not show up in Headmasters, so this makes it easier to split them off in Beast Wars II/Neo as well. Now, the clear issue is, unless the original Japanese version of RID had Galvatron as someone separate, we have some inconsistencies, or the two Beast Wars II anime were never supposed to happen. Now, notably they do star Optimus' lion form as well, which he gains during Victory. This is why it seems like an obvious sequel to the original anime Trilogy. It's also possible that Megatron's overall naming scheme is way different in RID(Anime) so it doesn't clash at all.

Note, that before I knew of the Beast Wars II stuff, I thought regular Beast Wars split off into two separate stories. Beast Machines, and Robots in Disguise. But also keep in mind I didn't see all of the original Transformers to know Predacons already existed, so...

Ah, the old "Anime aren't Cartoon" crazy talk.

I wonder why people hate to accept that anime means animation in its foreign language?

Isn't anime a french word. Coz it sounds like Animé. So then it'd mean "Animated" in a third, unrelated native language :-P

I don't disagree with Anime being called Anime, I just the concept of "It's not a cartoon, it's Anime" splitting hair.

edited 2nd Jul '15 5:14:54 PM by CobraPrime

It's not splitting hairs. There's two different things from two different parts of the world and has unique tropes applied because of their split.

Many of the Transformers stuff are officially Anime while other stuff are Cartoons.

Cartoons originated in the US regions. Anime originated in Japan. Animation is not a "longer name" for Anime either. Animation is actually a catch all-term for non-Live Action shows, basically. Animation is both Cartoon and Anime. Anime is not Cartoon on the other hand.

Obviously many genres share various similar tropes. Like The Hero, Big Bad, and often Elemental related ones. But they simply are not the same and have tons of differences. The only thing they have somewhat in common is that Anime was based upon Cartoons but are widely different in tons of ways(including the focus on storylines that aren't one-episode wonders as well as a different style of animation for most shows).

Likewise, cartoons got influenced by anime later too. This is why many nowadays have actual continuing storylines. This was pretty much not the purpose of most cartoons. In fact, most cartoons had a key purpose, to show an aesop. If they weren't simply just there for entertainment only, they had some kind of lesson to teach kids. This way very common in Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, and hard to see, but there in the original Transformers Generation 1. Albeit, many of the aesops didn't work much due to how unrealistic the characters are(an issue with Tails in Adventures was that while he was a kid, he had what were essentially powers, via flight, and was able to fight clearly abnormal enemies easily much of the time. So talking about going to the police when criminals and such, which he could easily handle, makes little sense overall. It still works just for the fact that Tails is clearly a kid).

Anyway, the key point I'm making is that they are not really the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such. This show is specifically a Cartoon(and clearly did take notes from Anime, namely having a full storyline). Much like the original RID did. Also, to be fair, this one actually didn't overuse the same animation outside of transformations at best(where it's justified) or for flashbacks(again, justified). The anime version severely overused the same animations for almost everything. Even to the point where they repeated the end of a previous episode... which led into the rest of the episode which was a flashback episode. In other words, instead of making new animation for the beginning, they simply recycled a full scene for an entire episode about previous scenes. I felt they were very lazy with that show. At least Optimus wasn't a semi truck for once, so it had some unique stuff. I also did like the fact they had tons of combiners and it felt like a nostalgia trip for those who watched the original Generation 1 Cartoon.

I know, long tangent and post, but there was a lot to say. Plus, it's not like my point in the previous post was about the whole "it's an anime! Don't call it a cartoon!" thing. That actually does matter since the cartoons and anime aren't exactly part of the same overall storyline in Transformers. The Japanese and US storylines are fairly different. Depending which one actually defines a lot of stuff. Including the origin of Galvatron and Megatron, the fact they're only the same person originally in the US storylines(obviously the Unicron Trilogy took the US storyline and made them the same person. It's a key influence from the classic Cartoon storyline that bled into the Japanese storyline). What's most interesting is that since Transformers Animated, they stopped making Megatron transform into Galvatron. It's no longer a thing for the cartoons. The last time it was done was in the live-action movies at best. Whether or not a new Transformers Anime might do that again is another story. I just find it funny that now the Anime uses the Megatron > Galvatron gimmick while the Cartoon no longer does. Despite it being the other way around(and for good reasons, since again, Megatron and Galvatron were unique people).

You're right, the trope section split is dumb.

France is a US region now? well shit. Geography teacher lied to me.

(And I know you didn't mean "originated" as "Originated" but rather "Mostly developed in" but hey, I can be pedantic too.

edited 2nd Jul '15 9:04:27 PM by CobraPrime

No, I meant Originated as in where it started. My bad on that. I honestly only knew that it started in the US. It is the outlier of cartoons, so it's an honest mistake.

I've also noticed there's been talking about splitting off French Animation from Western Animation(Western Animation is the catch term for Cartoons. Anime is grouped with Manga, which is why it stuck to that name on the Wiki. They use practically the same tropes overall, bar obviously changes to the animated counterpart of a Manga or vice versa). Cartoons are the most known form of the term "Western Animation", but it also makes it easier to separate from Anime for many people discussing it. It's obvious what the Wiki officially goes with. It does help that the US has its own network that uses Cartoon in it. I am unsure if they directly use the term in France as well(as in whether they use Cartoon or Animation). I don't live there, so I honestly would not know. I only know so much. Living in the US only gives you so much information, after all. Plus, I'm pretty bad at a lot of history. >_<

If we split French animation off Cartoons, I suggest we call it Anime.

It's a french word after all :-p The Japanese can go off and find their own!

Well the French don't use those terms since they, ya know, speak French. On account of being French and all. So they use french terms. "Dessins Animés" (Animated Drawing) is a catch all term in french for animation. They will sometimes also use "Film d'animation" (Animated Movie) but that's more used for actual movies. The later term is also more popular to design CGI-based animation while "Dessins Animés" typically refers to more traditional animation and I guess would be the closest terms to Cartoon the french have (As in animated Cartoons. Cartoons in the newspaper sense have a long and different history in French I could write a novella about). That said there's no official stance or nomenclature. They tend to use the terms interchangeably for anime and western animation (And the french were into Anime long before the USA did and both french and japanese animators have long histories of working together or being inspired by one another - See Lupin The 3rd or The Mysterious Cities of Gold). They just tend to append the term with the country of origin (Film d'animation Japonais = Japanese Animated Film or Dessins Animés Japonais = Japanese Animated Drawings). That said more bilingual french people may borrow the English nomenclature.

Dessins Animés is itself the source term Anime comes from (Animé = Animated) which again shows the rather long link between Japanese and French animation industries.

edited 3rd Jul '15 1:28:54 AM by Ghilz

As far as wiki organization the primary concerns are what medium it is (written, drawn, animated, human performed) and the viewing style (theater, cinema, television). I think drawing lines according to what region it was made in is semantics that ignore the potential for cross-regional inspiration AND cooperation, both in and outside the wiki.

In general, I'm fine with anime and western animation as separate categories simply because anime is such a massive category on its own (for a time in the 00's dubbed anime was about half the content on Cartoon Network, and is responsible for making Japanese animation more globally recognized instead of the comedic poorly dubbed stuff). But there is virtually no argument about whether Japanese live action television should be considered its own category, when the same theoretical arguments apply.

edited 3rd Jul '15 2:33:23 AM by KJMackley

I forget what any of this has to do with Transformers though