Mortal Kombat

Well I'm going to need a witness from SE Asia, possessing SE Asia account and playing online beforehand...

Where is it mentioned in X that Shao Kahn's now inside Ermac?

It was in his intro quote with Scorpion that he said Shao Kahn is still part of him.

And again the Elder Gods don't seem to do proper punishments much, other than having Shinnok beheaded yet still breathing.

Based on that, and other than them thinking making Shang Tsung purely reliant on constant soul-sucking to survive, I think this is how Armageddon canonically ended:

We have Taven having finished his tussle with Daegon. Blaze then appears begging Taven to finish the quest, with Taven barely having the stomach to continue. He does so regardless by grabbing one of the two swords his father Argus left for him and Daegon.

Taven fights his way through the pyramid, and just as when is about to reach Blaze, Daegon appears for a rematch. In the midst of this rematch, Argus and his wife Delia appear.

Taven is then rewarded with the position of Elder God, while Daegon get punished. Problem, Shao Kahn kills Blaze in the midst of this and gets the unlimited power as promised, with the Elder Gods most likely refusing to go back on the word they gave to whosoever beats Blaze, putting Taven on red tape.

Based on Taven willing to help Kenshi and Takeda in the latter two's arcade endings in X, Taven probably sent visions like Raiden and Shinnok to his past self.

edited 7th Nov '17 10:16:09 AM by HallowHawk

I just figure Taven and Daegon killed one another, and whoever survived got his face smashed in by Shao Kahn.

Apparently Taven is still alive, but I never found the source of this. Admittedly, I've never really look since I don't know where to even begin,

The original plan for Armageddon was that Taven defeating Blaze is the canonical ending, but this was changed when they developed the 2011 soft reboot. Armageddon was always meant to be the end of an era, with earlier plans being that they would continue from here, but with a fresh slate.

Which is why it had the whole "Every fighter who ever threw a punch" dynamic. It was to be one last hurrah for all of these characters before the story moves on in a new direction to new characters.

The decision was later made to go the reboot direction, and that's when the question of who defeated Blaze was shifted from Taven to Shao Kahn. Like Shujinko before him, this had the side effect of meaning Taven wound up being invited to just sorta go get f*cked, narratively speaking.

As someone who cared far too much about the OG Mortal Kombat plot, I loved Deception and Shujinko. He should have been the one to win in Amrageddon because, and this is no joke, I once had a list of power levels in MK and he was pretty much right at the top. This is the guy who beat an Elder Gods-empowered Scorpion before beating Komidogu-empowered Onaga.

Taven was bland and so was his story mode. Why does he get ultimate power?

Because he was trustworthy? Why else would you give someone ultimate power?

No, Shujinko was bland. Taven was an asshole.

Netherrealm made two attempts at crafting a "next-gen Liu Kang" and they both failed miserably. If anything, Deception and Armageddon are both case studies in how introducing some random new guy to an existing franchise and being like, "F*ck all of the characters you love, THIS GUY is where it's at now," is a recipe for disaster.

You can't just shove a Replacement Goldfish down fans' throats and expect them to automatically love him just as much as the original he's replacing.

Contrast MKX, where they handled Liu's absence by just expanding the roles of fan-beloved characters like Johnny Cage, Sonya, Scorpion, and Sub-Zero while using those characters as a springboard to get the audience invested in the new set of protagonists they'd created. That is how you pass the torch.

edited 12th Nov '17 9:18:47 AM by TobiasDrake

It also helps that instead of one new hero, we essentially got Mortal Kombat’s version of the Teen Titans. You’re bound to like one of them.

I do kinda like the fact that Shujinko overall is a background character. Good chunks of his life is either spent training or in prison.

I still don't think Taven is as bad as people make him out to be, since he does have a very detail background & it would a shame to not use it to some extent.

Shujinko is someone I found to very compelling. It's a shame that he just ended being background character in MK X where the comics just has him being brainwashed by Havik

I don't think I'll ever understand why people think Cassie a Mary Sue but then again the way people use the term these days it pretty much the most glorified insult word now.

Shujinko is around in the new universe? Are they just keeping him as a thing to shit on him?

As for him being bland, he has far mor edepth to his character than Liu or Taven ever did. Liu and Taven were just perfect paragons of goodness. Liu Kang himself is so devoid of any character beyond Generic Good Guy that I don't think anyone actually likes him. They accept him because he's always been the Main Protagonist Guy. The characters that were actually popular were side characters of all sorts, like the various Ninjas - sorry Sub-Zero, Ninjas and Lin Kuei - and even the main bad guys. Liu was just....there. The movie had to give him a character arc to make him worth something.

Shujinko is, well, kinda dumb? Or naive? Whatever way you want to put it, he has a character flaw. He wants nothing more than to fight in Mortal Kombat and be a hero and he goes on all these big adventures, showing us more of the MK Universe than we had ever seen before. He was just trying to help. In the end he does rectify his mistake.

I love that in Armageddon when Taven finds Shujinko Shujinko was just like "I got myself locked up so I could follow the group of villains. Why? Because I will beat ALL of them!"

Deadly Alliance, Deception and Armageddon are all in this weird gray area where they wanted to tell a better story but they just didn't put as much effort into it as they could. The potential is there but they just didn't try as hard until the reboot. If they did Deception again, I think it be a lot better.

edited 12th Nov '17 1:07:22 PM by Nikkolas

I'm assuming by the fact your unaware of Shujinko's cameo appearance & Liu-Kang's current state you haven't play 9 or X?

Liu-Kang has changed a lot since then & he's no longer the main protag anymore.

Also yes he just appeared to be shat upon.

edited 12th Nov '17 1:10:03 PM by slimcoder

I don't know much about X apart from Cassie Cage existing and what happens to Shinnok. I know all about 9, though. Liu is different there but we were talking about the old continuity and fan reaction to the two replacements for that old Liu Kang.

His death in 9 is really kinda silly. I mean, the scene itself is full of tension but his death just comes off as so dumb. It's one of the few things I think DA did better. Killing Liu there was very dramatic and OH SHIT.

Shujinko was an idiot who decided to waste his entire life at the whim of a random glowing ball, who turned out to be super evil.

I felt betrayed by Deception Story Mode, which I guess makes its title appropriate. This opportunity to explore the world of Mortal Kombat in an open ended story mode resulted in the shaggiest of shaggy dogs that ever shagged. Armageddon wasn't much better either. I don't want Shujinko or Taven to ever come back.

The only good thing I remember now from Deception's story mode is the ability to repeatedly punch Shao Kahn in the overworld without retaliation.

While he did waste time on a quest resulting in Onaga getting exactly what he wanted, but he did get a wide variety of training among multiple fighters.

In Armageddon story he is definitely even more of an idiot.

No, Shujinko is now part of the White Lotus. He still somehow got brainwash by Havik somehow. The comic is very contradicting with MK X's story.

Its kinda like the injustice Comics, I feel the writer is told only so much about the game's story but is more or less allowed to go nuts

There was never any reference to Black Lightning serving his time as the President of the United States, so make that as you will.

To give people on idea how contradicting the comics is, Ermac is still serving Mileena which is impossible. Granted he switch sides by the end but they seriously needed to communicated with each other about avoiding plot holes.

I'll say this much, as mediocre the comic was, it did wonders for Scorpion's character.

How was Taven an asshole?

Yeah never got that, taven have a very deadpan and sarcastic personality but is hardly an asshole and if anything he have more sense to be naive that shunjinko since he lost a huge chunck of affairs.

And shunjinko wasnt that much of a idiot, you people forgot damashi give him is amulet to take other powers and having the kamdigous prove he was something, why he should doubt?.

I feel both Shujinko and Taven have potencial so I want to see now, I mean MKX finally get Jax some love, they can do the same for both of them now.

I think I'm the only one who thinks that while Liu Kang was a 'Generic Good Guy', he made a legacy out of it. That the way he got expanded in X is leaving a bitter taste to me.

Because legacy is to be expanded while preserved. NOT SHAT UPON.

Between this and Blizzard's World Of Warcraft, it makes me wonder just what the hell is the taste of the Western audience... It's like it's not manliness or tough stuffs but "Fallen Hero"...

It's basically repeating what Tobias Gold is saying: "F*ck all of the characters you love, THIS GUY is where it's at now."

edited 18th Nov '17 6:09:35 PM by ChrisX

The problem was exactly that though. Liu Kang was so perfect that came off as a generic good guy. That being said there's nothing wrong with being a Nice Guy, if anything else it just means how determined they are to stand by their moral compass. If anything else the Fallen Hero is only done right when it's believable. If you're going tell me someone like Dare Devil would become a bad guy, I would believe you given how God-awful his life is. Which actually happened in Shadow Lands but that beside the point.

edited 18th Nov '17 7:17:09 PM by agent-trunks