Sounds like a standard revenge plot, but I think you need to get the framework right before worrying about tropes. I'm writing a Weird West revenge story where the heiress to a wealthy clan returns to her city ten years after her family's murdered by a power-hungry sheriff (who burned half the city in the process). She kills him dead with her father's hunting knife and reclaims her identity.
Bang. Plot's done. The fantasy/steampunk elements are just nice details, and a large portion of the story is her getting reacquainted with her family's supporters and the remnants of the city itself.
Are you American yourself, or do you actually live in the Western half of the US? You have the concept right, but you seem to be muddled up in details when you really shouldn't be. Classic Westerns are often very straightforward plot-wise—it's more in the characters (and scenery) that Westerns truly shine.
For villain reasonings: Why does he kill the protagonist's family? Either he wants something they have (money, land, or maybe the protag's wife) or they were unfortunate enough to be in the way of the actual desire. Same reason for why the girl is nearly killed.
And for the lead's revenge, things can often span from a few months to several years. In this case, two or three years seems like a good time—both for him to become bitter at the lack of justice, and to eventually become an outlaw.
Why does he become an outlaw? Depends on how you portray law enforcement: if they're genuine but undermanned, as is the case for many frontier towns, he'd become a vigilante to help them out. If they're corrupt or just don't care, he'd be bitter and deliberately take advantage of the lax law enforcement.
And yes, law enforcement could be nigh-invisible in the early days of the West. Either there aren't enough resources despite good-faith efforts, or the law itself is corrupt.
edited 30th Jun '14 12:19:33 PM by Sharysa
Well I've been coming up with other stuff too.
In one example, Butcher Bill is coming in from another county to work with local outlaw Cassius Green. But the deal is botched when a posse, led by Sheriff Jackson, rides in and nearly kills Bill. Bill betrays Cassius to help him escape, and Cassius is arrested. Bill's two brothers are killed in the shootout. Jackson refuses to go after Bill, claiming that the capture of Cassius is enough to send Bill back to his original county. The posse also rescues Lillie during this event, which the two gangs just happened to cross by; they were going to ransom her off to Jackson.
Bill, coming back for revenge, attacks John's family (since John was part of the above posse). Now a broken man, John urges Jackson to form another posse, but he refuses. John blames Jackson for the death of his family, and so takes matters into his own hands. He frees Cassius Green to help him track down Bill. Lillie tags along, even though doesn't want her too, but she's doing it cause she also wants revenge.
Unfortunately, John is forced to kill Cassius because he tries to have his way with Lillie, and so John is back at step 1.
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The other idea I had was that John and Cassius are brothers, but Cassius became an outlaw long ago. John had a very short stint as an outlaw but that lifestyle didn't fit him so he became a family man. He married and had a daughter. Cassius works with Bill at some point during his outlaw career.
Sometime or another, John's family is killed. He is then forced to team up with Cassius to track down Bill, but ends up having to kill Cassius for the same reason above (tries to have his way with Lillie). He meets Lillie at some point.
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The inclusion of Lillie is a must. John is a broken man who misses his family, and now Lillie comes into his life and refills that gap: she reminds him of his daughter and so he develops a father-daughter relationship with her over the course of the story (or roleplay).
But I want to set this all up to where the official story begins with John meeting Lillie. I don't want him to meet Lillie halfway through the story, I want her to be a major and central character from the start. I'm just not sure how I want to do it.
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EDIT: I have another idea but it feels to much like True Grit. Maybe John TRIED to track down Butcher Bill but failed to. Now Lillie, who is also seeking revenge, comes to John to hire him (John has since turned into a bounty hunter) and the two work together to find the man who killed their families (in John's case, his wife and daughter).
In this form, Lillie would just replace the need for John to free Cassius to help find Bill. Now he just needs Lillie to help find Bill.
edited 30th Jun '14 1:32:39 PM by TJByrum
Can you give a brief (paragraph length) summary of your story without adding in lots of details? I summed up my Weird West story in two sentences, and remember that Westerns as a genre are famous for straightforward plots. Even Kill Bill has a really basic revenge plot as the main story—it's just not told in order.
It's nothing personal, but without reading the actual story, I keep getting lost in your explanations.
Thanks for helping me anyway.
To avenge the death of his wife and daughter, John embarks on a quest to track down and kill Butcher Bill, whether that means working for or against the law. He soon comes into contact with a young girl named Lillie, who simply wants to see her own family's murderer (Bill) killed.
While it IS a revenge story, the basis of the whole thing is the redemption of John as he develops a father-daughter relationship with Lillie. I just need help making it 'clean', cause I know it sounds like it gets strung-out.
Also, this is for a roleplay, but the backstory might help set up a prequel story I may or may not want to write.
Much clearer. Does Bill have a reputation or bounty on his head for reckless killing, or is he just known for being a dangerous man to cross? Alternately, has he killed for a reason?
edited 30th Jun '14 3:41:09 PM by Sharysa
He earned his nickname, 'Butcher' Bill, because he recklessly murders settlers and travelers throughout the west. He mostly operates in Yornley county, but he's been trying to work with Cassius Green in Wissleon county. He's a cold-blooded, ruthless killer who kills remorsely.
However, I had considered three options: 1. He just randomly kills John's family. 2. He kills John's family in an act of revenge. 3. He kills John's family because he is hired by Land Baron.
With option 3: John purchased land from Land Baron (that's a placeholder name) and is unable to turn a profit, so he joins a posse to earn some cash. This posse is trying to hunt down Butcher Bill, but they run across Cassius Green instead. Ironically, Land Baron hires Butcher Bill to 'extort' the cash from John, but since John isn't there ( and due to Bill's butcher-like personality) Bill just ends up killing the family.
I don't think the first option is very easy to play unless you specifically establish that he's a sociopath. The second or third options fit much better for a Western villain.
And no problem for the help—I have a very big soft spot for the Wild West.
Isn't it common in most westerns that road agents, bandits, and other outlaws would murder travelers just to rob them of their goods? So I don't think it'd be a longshot for Butcher Bill to end up riding on John's house to rob them.
Regardless, I've been concocting some new thoughts.
Summary: After the murder of her family, Lillie Williams enlists the aid of bounty hunter John Taylors to help her track down the culprit, a notorious outlaw by the name of Butcher Bill.
About partway through the story, however, John and Lillie catch up to Bill, but John is reluctant to kill him when he discovers that Bill knows where Cassius Green is: Cassius Green being the man that killed John's own family years ago.
I just want to write a story about the journey between John and Lillie. I'm beginning to wonder if I should make it where John is just a simple bounty hunter and is hired by Lillie to track down Butcher Bill - end of story.
Even robbing is a reason. You implied that he just rode up and killed them for the lulz because you said "randomly."
edited 1st Jul '14 9:07:27 AM by Sharysa
It's a lack of words. I ain't got a huge vocabulary.
Yeah, he's an outlaw who robs decent folk.
I think I'll sit on this idea for a while. I sit on ideas for months on end sometimes and still can't get satisfied. I need someone with similar ideas to collaborate with me, but I don't think anyone else is interested in the father-daughter aspects that I am interested in.
Most stories are about a romance between a man and woman, or the bonding of a son and father, or a woman's love for her children. It just feels rare to hear/watch/read/play something where the two characters are a father and daughter. The Last of Us was pretty great, but there's not many like it.
If romance dominates the market, this means you should write a story with a father-daughter relationship EVEN MORE.
There's lots of people sick of romance.
Yeah... perhaps I ought to look into some stuff a bit more. I'm really itching to get this here story underway. Might even forget about the RP and just use my freetime to write this story out.
I don't see this thread as usable anymore. I'll be looking for a place to ask questions. Thanks for the help, hope to see you around. Might give your Weird Western a look.
Am I using this website right? Oh well; I guess I'll find out soon enough.
I'm trying to write up a good backstory for one of my characters that I will be using in a story/roleplay soon. It's a western, like the American Wild West. The character names are subject to change, more like placeholders.
Okay, so John Taylors' wife and young daughter is murdered by an outlaw named Cassius Green. Why? Not sure yet, but probably because there was a lot of beef between these two guys. Okay, so Cassius is ultra dangerous, and the marshal refuses to seek out Cassius (he's hidden very good out in the frontier). So there's only one thing for John to do: seek out and free Cassius' former partner: the legendary Butcher Bill. Not only is Bill skilled enough to help John take out Cassius' gang, but he's also one of the very few people who know where Cassius' hideout is.
John helps break Bill out of the jail, and so now John is a wanted criminal. Bill agrees to help John take out Cassius. John and Bill round up a small gang of their own and head for Cassius' hideout. Along the way John is forced to defend himself and also defend Bill since he needs him alive.
The gang finally arrives and has a deadly shootout with Cassius' gang and John gets the revenge he's been seeking. Afterwards, he decides to ride with Bill to another region where he hopes his bounty won't follow him. He has an idea in his head that he 'might' turn on Bill and turn him to relieve his own bounty, but he's unsure of that.
Along the way, Bill is about to murder a young girl named Lillie, but John steps in and kills Bill (Lillie reminds John of his own daughter that was killed).
...and the roleplay kicks off from there. John rides into town with Lillie and complications ensue and John and Lillie's relationship is explored (John was once a loving father, turned into a wanted murder, and now his fatherly side is coming out again), but that's not important.
Anything you guys would change to make it better or more interesting? How long should the whole 'free Bill and track down Cassius' story be? A few weeks, months, or a year? Do you think it's a realistic approach that a good man like John would have to resort to murder in order to achieve his goal (John ends up wounding and killing lawmen and anyone else who threatens him and Bill)? Do you think it would be better if John's experiences with Bill turned him into a shadow of his former self, becoming an outlaw with Bill since he has 'nothing else to live for' (killing Cassius for revenge may have changed him)? If I was to go that route then it would be fun to see his redemption as he tries to protect and care for Lillie, who he begins to see as his 'daughter'.
What tropes would be associated with this?
EDIT: Also I was thinking about the Marshal having something to do with the death of John's wife and daughter. Maybe he ignored John's pleas, or failed to act on opportunity or something, but maybe it was the Marshal's fault John's family was killed. This would further encourage John to turn to the dark side as he also kills the Marshal for letting the event happen.
EDIT 2: In continuing with the above edit, maybe John completely forsakes the 'side of justice' since they failed him, molding him into a full-blown outlaw. And I was thinking: what if Bill was part of Cassius' gang when they killed John's family? That would add a lot of dynamic between John and Bill; John hates Bill, but he's having to work with him if he wants the ultimate revenge on Cassius. But then the question remains: what's stopping Bill from killing John? John has to have something that Bill needs too... not sure what though.
edited 27th Jun '14 9:51:44 AM by TJByrum