Mass Effect General Discussion (spoilers)

Different solutions to the same problem; complexity has that kind of stuff going on.

Well, I suppose the question is simply whether all of the heretics went with Saren.

True, I had wondered that. But it depends on whether the Geth as a whole were evil and the Heretic thing came about as a retcon with Character Development. Some of the ME 1 stuff seems to imply that the Geth are intrinsically hostile.

Which they should've kept if they wanted to make the whole AI = bad thing.

Anyway, I could be taking it way too literally.

There's no such thing as "VI rights." They have no sentience. They're basically search engines with faces.

V Is are like Cortana in Windows Ten, except maybe a bit more advanced. It would be like complaining about humans using any for of robotic assistance.

V Is, strictly speaking, are also AIs.

What everyone in ME universe (and many outside of it) call A.I.s is actually the so-called "strong AI" / "Artificial General Intelligence". A computer program that actually has a mind of its own, in the full and literal sense. It can think and act in a way similar to an organic mind in all most thinkable situations.

edited 22nd Mar '16 10:55:44 PM by NHunter

The words "non-sentient" and "devoted to one narrow task" are in the first line of the linked article.

They're not beings in the same way you could argue the Geth are. They're basically Siri.

It's not necessarily about sentience - as we see from Luna and even the Geth themselves, V Is in some cases have the potential to become AI.

And from a synthetic perspective, ;they could see the V Is in the way we view organic servitors - beasts of burden, or primates - "simplistic" cousins who they may view as being unfairly loaded on. But then again we don't really know how the geth view organics really, let alone other synthetics and even if they have kinship with them.

As I said, a simple VI would be the synthetic equivalent of growing a biological servant - a stunted "Gamma" from Brave New World - to do menial tasks. I mean as humans we barely credit other intelligent beings with sapience. And when we do, we still don't exactly treat them with respect, species wide.

Except it's not the same at all. One is creating a living being. The other is creating a computer program.

Luna is already odd for a VI, and was probably pushing the limits of what you can legally do with a VI in this universe. But she's still not a proper being until she's re-written and installed in an AI blue box.

And Luna is the exception, not the rule. If you want to talk about a typical VI, you need to look at something like Avina (basically a signpost you can talk to), or the Shepard VI (spouts off a few Shepard-y things, but doesn't run all that great).

We call Luna a VI, but doesn't EDI explicitly make mention that she first gained sentience as Luna when you ask her about it on Cronos Station? The Alliance called it a rogue VI, but wasn't it stated in one of the sequels that the Luna disaster was the Alliance's attempt at making a controllable (i.e.: shackled) AI?

Yeah, a VI is just Siri with a projection attached to it.

The Alliance just claim the Luna VI is one to try and cover their asses.

Admittedly, in ME AI are specifically stated to require Quantum boxes to exist and cannot be duplicated.

So I concede that usual V Is would be just Clippy's with holograms.

However, the geth don't appear to require an equivalent and are some alien code that allows for sapience and transfer of sapience without loss of identity. Things get muddy on that as their level of sapience changes depending on their numbers, so are they really sentient? Or just VERY clever clippy's with access to automatic weaponry?

I would disagree on cloning and manufacturing a machine as being too dissimilar - we selectively bred animals to fulfill specific purposes (Farming, transportation, entertainment, hunting) and treat them akin to tools at the extreme.

Imagine if, say, Binary Helix created a simple organic creature, that could be mass produced and had no sapient thought, but could respond to commands and was capable of performing complex tasks. The parts are just organic in nature. It is equally synthetic, in that it is a created thing, but it's made of meat. Now, not saying it'd be more efficient, but I imagine that people would argue that it has rights (In the ME verse) or that use of such creatures is wrong. The Keepers are an external example - as are, in a way, the Collectors and any thrall of the Reapers - they're villainous versions.

In the ME verse, the fact that these things are all Organic is a sign that, in the ME verse, organic is held to be "superior" to synthetic (At least by the villains) and in some ways, the other races. But the geth, wouldn't they have a similar view of things that are similar to them, which have similarities to their own origins, being treated the same. If you accept them as sentient, thinking creatures, which are synthetic, then where is the line where they cease being sentient and revert to being V Is or tools?

Nice! Can anyone tell what species the person at the bottom is at 30 seconds?

Can't tell, must be one of the new species.

I'm down to my final ME 3 multiplayer challenge of the solo challenges.

Any recommendations from those who've passed it?

@The Airman You mean on the bottom right, standing next to a human? Looks like a drell to me.

If you want something to wait until Andromeda is released, I highly recommend reading the Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold. It is an alien-less Space Opera, but with a lot of variety between the different human colonies. More importantly, the main character, Miles Vorkosigan, finally answers the question: what would happen if Joker and Femshep had a son? To sum it up, he is a Disabled Snarker Guile And Magnetic Hero adept of the Xanatos Speed Chess - and of the closest thing there is to Boldly Coming without actual aliens.

Might give that a whirl. I need something to sate the ME void. I'm playing through the series again, about to finally 100% ME 1 on an insanity playthrough. Going to Romance Liara all the way through as that's apparently what the writers see as Cannon...

Need to finish ME 3 again with the new endings. Nearly did it with Citadel but got... bored. Didn't do the Aramax area to 100% or get the party done... just petered out. So hopefully will get this done fully this time.

Weird how there's no other games that manage to evoke the same sense. I tried some space games - Starpoint Gemini 2 - but nothing seems to have the same sense of exploration and "group" that Mass Effect does. Not sure it that's a Bioware thing or not.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I honestly feel the same way. Mass Effect is a game that manages to capitalise so well on the emotional investment you put into it. I can't wait for Andromeda.

Today is Commander Shepard's -138th birthday!

Didn't know there was an official birthday but yeah congrats!

Who's gonna jump out of Shepard's cake?

Just shove everyone in there.

A vorcha. Or Kalros.

edited 11th Apr '16 5:23:47 PM by TheAirman