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East Asia News & Politics Thread: China, South Korea, Japan...

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Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#3001: Dec 18th 2017 at 12:29:21 PM

[up][up] And the Uighurs aren't helping anyone by going for to fight for ISIS (getting killed and only making the situation worse for the group as a whole).

Life is unfair...
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3002: Dec 18th 2017 at 12:31:14 PM

[up][up][up] When the brief period of train shankings happened, the PRC made a huge deal about it, saying it was China's 9/11 (even though in HK it was obvious it wasn't as terrible as 2001).

If Uyghurs are shown to have an actual role within ISIS, I think the entire minority is royally screwed. The PRC will have international support to come down on them hard.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#3003: Dec 18th 2017 at 12:36:11 PM

[up]

Uyghurs are well known to have a presence in ISIS. China won't get support, but nobody will care about Xinjiang either.

edited 18th Dec '17 12:36:41 PM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3004: Dec 18th 2017 at 12:37:50 PM

[up] With all the oppression they face at home, it's honestly no surprise they're all heading over to those omnicidal shitstains.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#3005: Dec 18th 2017 at 2:02:24 PM

[up] Let's see, with the options of emmigration and activism on the table, they choose to join a mass murdering group to harm people who have absolutely nothing to do with their condition. How can I feel even the least bit of empathy?

Life is unfair...
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3006: Dec 18th 2017 at 2:04:45 PM

[up] If it helps, I don't empathize at all with their decision to join a bunch of murderous thugs who practice crucifixion. I'm trying to say that their rationale for doing so is partially understandable due to the way Xinjiang is run.

Activism could greatly help, but again it's never worked out well within China. Emigration...that certainly works, but many can't leave for various reasons. Family ties, work, worries that their friends will be scrutinized by the government if they do, etc.

edited 18th Dec '17 2:06:48 PM by TheWildWestPyro

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3007: Dec 18th 2017 at 2:04:53 PM

Not so sure that either of these options on the table are as good as they sound in this context...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3009: Dec 19th 2017 at 1:16:21 AM

China urges cooperation after U.S brands it a competitor.

This is related to Trump's foreign policy stance as announced today, which sees Russia (oh the irony) and China as threats.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3010: Dec 19th 2017 at 1:36:06 PM

Is Taiwan trying to erase links to mainland China, or forget a bloody past? An article on the official removal of Chiang Kai-shek's statues from Taiwan.

I feel the writer is a little too optimistic about how this will go down well with the KMT. It's definitely gonna be a hot button issue for them.

edited 23rd Dec '17 4:13:09 PM by TheWildWestPyro

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#3011: Dec 19th 2017 at 3:38:59 PM

I've actually compared Taiwan's social debate about the Chiang statues to the ongoing equivalent here in the state with Confederate ones.

I'd say moved them all into that one park whose novelty gimmick is literally housing all of the statues from places that no longer want theirs. Both the Chiang and Confederate statues were erected in Taiwanese and African-American communities as mass-produced symbols meant to remind people of who was dominant in society: the mainland waisenreng in Taiwan, and the racist whites in the former Confederate states.

Funnily enough, both the Chiang and Confederate statues were also products of factions who were massively defeated.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#3012: Dec 19th 2017 at 6:41:12 PM

I don't find the comparison quite fair. The United States didn't have a third faction that called both Unionists and Confederates illegitimate. The Confederacy was a rebellion that was decisively defeated. The KMT-ruled ROC was defeated in the mainland, but it was not in Taiwan (it was even victorious in the successful defense of Kinmen). It was not the rebellion; that was the CCP, which to this day insults both KMT and native Taiwanese.

edited 19th Dec '17 6:41:21 PM by Trivialis

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3013: Dec 19th 2017 at 7:08:39 PM

The KMT would be more like the Union if the Union lost the war and retreated to Puerto Rico or something.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#3014: Dec 23rd 2017 at 5:42:40 AM

At least 10,000 killed in 1989 Tiananmen crackdown: British cable

At least 10,000 people were killed in the Chinese army's crackdown on pro-democracy protesters in Beijing's Tiananmen Square in June 1989, according to a newly released British diplomatic cable that recounts the bloodshed in gruesome detail.

The document, made public more than 28 years after the event, describes injured girls being bayoneted, bodies being ground up by armoured vehicles and human remains being flushed into the sewers.

"Minimum estimate of civilian dead 10,000," the then British ambassador Alan Donald said in the secret telegram to London seen by AFP at Britain's National Archives.

The estimate, given on June 5, 1989, the day after the crackdown, is almost 10 times higher than that commonly accepted at the time of several hundred to more than a thousand dead.

But experts questioned by AFP said the 10,000 figure seemed credible.

Donald's account gives horrific details of the violence unleashed on the night of June 3-4, when the army entered Beijing to end seven weeks of protests on Tiananmen Square, the symbolic heart of Communist power.

During their advance, armoured personnel carriers "opened fire on the crowd (both civilians and soldiers) before running over them in their APCs", wrote the ambassador.

He said his source was a person who "was passing on information given him by a close friend who is currently a member of the State Council" — the Chinese cabinet.

He said the source had previously proved reliable "and was careful to separate fact from speculation and rumour".

Once the soldiers arrived in Tiananmen Square, "students understood they were given one hour to leave square but after five minutes APCs attacked," Donald wrote.

"Students linked arms but were mown down including soldiers. APCs then ran over bodies time and time again to make 'pie' and remains collected by bulldozer. Remains incinerated and then hosed down drains."

"Four wounded girl students begged for their lives but were bayoneted," Donald said, adding: "Army ambulances who attempted to give aid were shot up."

At the end of June 1989, the Chinese government had said suppression of the "counter-revolutionary riots" had killed 200 civilians and several dozen police and military.

- 'Primitives' -

Nearly three decades after the crackdown, the communist regime continues to forbid any debate on the subject, mention of which is banned from textbooks and the media, and censored on the Internet.

There was no sign of reaction to the report on Chinese social media, where an army of online censors blocks any reference to the Tiananmen crackdown and most things critical of the Communist Party.

Donald said the atrocities were committed by the 27th Army, who he described as "60 percent illiterate and are called primitives".

He said the crackdown had created deep rifts within the military and that "some members of the State Council considered that civil war is imminent".

As to the credibility of the toll, former student protest leader Xiong Yan, who is now an American citizen, said: "I think it's reliable."

China scholar Jean-Pierre Cabestan also said the figure was credible, pointing out that recently declassified US documents gave a similar assessment.

"That's two pretty independent sources which say the same thing," said Cabestan, a professor at Hong Kong Baptist University.

The British ambassador's report was "not particularly astonishing considering how crowded it was in Beijing, the number of people mobilised" against the Chinese government, said Cabestan, who was in the Chinese capital in the days leading up to the crackdown.

Former student leader Feng Congde, now also based in the United States, pointed out that Donald had sent another telegram three weeks later putting the death toll at between 2,700 and 3,400.

Feng said that toll was quite credible and fitted with figures from the Chinese Red Cross, who at the time estimated 2,700 fatalities, and by student committees based on hospital reports.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3015: Dec 23rd 2017 at 4:12:33 PM

[up]

And meanwhile in Hong Kong, youth today don't attend the vigil, because to many all mainlanders are backwards noisy hicks who poop on pavements and contaminate Hong Kong's gloriousness by just being there.

When student protesters just like them get killed and HK youth still don't sympathize with them just because they're mainlanders, it's time to for them have a good look at themselves.

Seriously, a good amount of the localist movements are right-wing, militant and very populist. It disturbs me.

edited 23rd Dec '17 4:12:51 PM by TheWildWestPyro

Ominae (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3016: Dec 23rd 2017 at 6:03:53 PM

Didn't know that some PLA medics did try to intervene before warning shots were used.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#3017: Dec 26th 2017 at 5:00:12 PM

New York Times: The Leap to Single-Payer: What Taiwan Can Teach

Taiwan is proof that a country can make a swift and huge change to its health care system, even in the modern day.

The United States, in part because of political stalemate, in part because it has been hemmed in by its history, has been unable to be as bold.

Singapore, which we wrote about in October, tinkers with its health care system all the time. Taiwan, in contrast, revamped its top to bottom.

Less than 25 years ago, Taiwan had a patchwork system that included insurance provided for those who worked privately or for the government, or for trade associations involving farmers or fishermen. Out-of-pocket payments were high, and physicians practiced independently. In March 1995, all that changed.

After talking to experts from all over the world, Taiwan chose William Hsiao, a professor of economics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, to lead a task force to design a new system. Uwe Reinhardt, a longtime Princeton professor, also contributed significantly to the effort. (Mr. Reinhardt, who died last month, was a panelist on an Upshot article comparing international health systems in a tournament format.) The task force studied countries like the United States, Britain, France, Canada, Germany and Japan.

In the end, Taiwan chose to adopt a single-payer system like that found in Medicare or in Canada, not a government-run system like Britain’s. At first, things did not go as well as hoped. Although the country had been planning the change for years, it occurred quite quickly after democracy was established in the early 1990s. The system, including providers and hospitals, was caught somewhat off guard, and many felt that they had not been adequately prepared. The public, however, was much happier about the change.

Today, most hospitals in Taiwan remain privately owned, mostly nonprofit. Most physicians are still either salaried or self-employed in practices.

The health insurance Taiwan provides is comprehensive. Both inpatient and outpatient care are covered, as well as dental care, over-the-counter drugs and traditional Chinese medicine. It’s much more thorough than Medicare is in the United States.

Access is also quite impressive. Patients can choose from pretty much any provider or therapy. Wait times are short, and patients can go straight to specialty care without a referral.

Premiums are paid for by the government, employers and employees. The share paid by each depends on income, with the poor paying a much smaller percentage than the wealthy.

Taiwan’s cost of health care rose faster than inflation, as it has in other countries. In 2001, co-payments for care were increased, and in 2002, they went up again, along with premiums. In those years, the government also began to reduce reimbursement to providers after a “reasonable” number of patients was seen. It also began to pay less for drugs. Finally, it began to institute global budgets — caps on the total amount paid for all care — in the hope of squeezing providers into becoming more efficient.

Relative to the United States and some other countries, Taiwan devotes less of its economy to health care. In the early 2000s, it was spending 5.4 percent of G.D.P., and by 2014 that number had risen to 6.2 percent. By comparison, countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development spend on average more than 9 percent of G.D.P. on health care, and the United States spends about twice that.

After the most recent premium increase in 2010 (only the second in Taiwan’s history), the system began to run surpluses.

This is not to say the system is perfect. Taiwan has a growing physician shortage, and physicians complain about being paid too little to work too hard (although doctors in nearly every system complain about that). Taiwan has an aging population and a low birthrate, which will push the total costs of care upward with a smaller base from which to collect tax revenue.

Taiwan has done a great job at treating many communicable diseases, but more chronic conditions are on the rise. These include cancer and cardiovascular and cerebrovascular disease, all of which are expensive to treat.

The health system’s quality could also be better. Although O.E.C.D. data aren’t available for the usual comparisons, Taiwan’s internal data show that it has a lot of room for improvement, especially relating to cancer and many aspects of primary care. Taiwan could, perhaps, fix some of this by spending more.

As we showed in our battle of the health care systems, though, complaints can be made about every system, and the one in the United States is certainly no exception. For a country that spends relatively little on health care, Taiwan is accomplishing quite a lot.

Comparing Taiwan and the United States may appear to be like comparing apples and aardvarks. One is geographically small, with only 23 million citizens, while the other is vast and home to well above 300 million. But Taiwan is larger than most states, and a number of states — including Vermont, Colorado and California — have made pushes for single-payer systems in the last few years. These have not succeeded, however, perhaps because there is less tolerance for disruption in the United States than the Taiwanese were willing to accept.

Regardless of which health system you might prefer, Taiwan’s ambition showed what’s possible. It took five years of planning and two years of legislative efforts to accomplish its transformation. That’s less time than the United States has spent fighting over the Affordable Care Act, with much less to show for it.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3018: Dec 26th 2017 at 5:55:51 PM

[up] Related to that - I was having a discussion with another Chinese history buff about the KMT under Chiang.

He brought up how hilariously ironic it is that the authoritarian anti-communist military dictatorship encouraged and had socialized medicine before the CCP even did.

edited 26th Dec '17 5:57:36 PM by TheWildWestPyro

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#3019: Dec 26th 2017 at 6:40:26 PM

I don't find it all that surprising. The KMT has historically been an syncretic, big-tent group gathering a wide range of people and ideologies, even some communists - and I'm not even talking about CCP members that tactically joined the KMT in order to form a KMT-CCP United Front in WWII. The KMT had its own brand of socialism and it went against merchants as well as the Communist Party. The democratic western-styled market ideals materialized later in Taiwan.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3020: Dec 26th 2017 at 7:32:32 PM

[up] Indeed. I've described them as politically centre prior to Taiwan because of all the factions. Rana Mitter has noted that Chiang took advice from both the left and right wings throughout his career, and so did Dr. Sun. The one thing certain about their political stance was that the KMT was authoritarian, and all the wings united under Chiang regardless of their views.

Plus, being centrist (and Chiang and his wife being extremely good at geopolitics) let them buddy up and get aid from first the Soviets, then Nazi Germany, then the USSR again and finally the USA.

The KMT's been described as pro-capitalist, but Chiang fiercely persecuted the oligarchs in Shanghai during the Nanjing decade.

The KMT Revolutionary Committee in mainland China was founded by KMT members who opposed Chiang during the second stage of the civil war, and is a pretty popular party there.

edited 26th Dec '17 7:37:38 PM by TheWildWestPyro

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3021: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:55:08 AM

Taiwan defense budget will rise each year, according to President Tsai

This is mainly due to increased Chinese military incursions in Taiwan's airspace and the strait.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#3022: Dec 31st 2017 at 8:25:14 PM

Financial Times: Palau holds out as China squeezes Taiwan’s allies

Palau, a tiny Pacific nation of just 21,500 people, has vowed to resist renewed pressure from Beijing to cut its diplomatic links with Taiwan.

One of just 20 nations keeping formal diplomatic ties with Taiwan, Palau was named in a notice issued by Chinese officials last month warning travel agencies that it was illegal to advertise group tours to destinations not on China’s approved list.

But while a clampdown on Chinese visitors would hurt the Palau economy, the nation said it had no plans to switch its allegiance away from Taipei.

“Palau is a country of laws, it is a democracy and we make our own decisions,” said Olkeriil Kazuo, spokesperson for Palau’s president, Tommy Remengesau.

China is the biggest source of visitors to tourist-dependent Palau, comprising roughly half the 113,000 visitors to the archipelago so far this year, according to the Asian Development Bank.

Tensions between China and Taiwan, a self-governed island that Beijing regards as a renegade province, were heightened last year when the Democratic Progressive party led by Tsai Ing-wen won power, replacing the more China-friendly Nationalist party, or Kuomintang.

The republication of China’s list of approved travel destinations reflects Beijing’s toughening approach towards Taiwan’s allies, experts said.

Mr Kazuo said Beijing’s exclusion of Palau from its list of approved destinations — a measure in place for several years but to date not strictly enforced — has “never affected” the country.

Tourism growth “largely determines economic performance” — the sector accounted for more than half of Palau’s gross domestic product in 2015 — and a “significant” decline in visitors from China, Japan and Taiwan this year has already caused “uncertainty over near-term economic prospects”, according to the ADB.

Dilmei Louisa Olkeriil, Palau’s ambassador to Taiwan, said that, if the number of Chinese visitors suddenly fell, “of course the [tourism] industry will hurt”.

“If China says, ‘no tourists go to Palau’, then no tourists will come to Palau, we need to be aware of that,” she said, adding that Palau must further diversify its source markets to “protect us from something like this”.

In the decades since China was admitted to the UN in 1971, most countries withdrew recognition of the Republic of China, as Taiwan is formally known, to establish relations with Beijing. In a dogged battle for recognition, both sides have long used promises of financial aid and infrastructure spending to attract allies.

But policymakers in Beijing have now decided that China’s political objectives are not “something they can obtain purely by soft power alone”, said Lauren Dickey, a researcher in cross-Strait relations and a visiting fellow at National Chengchi University in Taipei.

“Even when China has relied on the carrot, the threat of the stick has always been there. The difference is the stick is actually being used this time,” Ms Dickey said.

William Stanton, former head of the American Institute in Taiwan, the unofficial US embassy in Taipei, said it was clear China was “stepping up pressure” against Taiwan.

“It seems to be an important shift,” he said, noting that President Xi Jinping of China had signalled a toughening foreign policy at the Communist party congress in October. “They are a bully and they are going to get worse unless people stand up to them,” said Mr Stanton, who now lectures at National Taiwan University.

edited 31st Dec '17 8:27:09 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Ominae (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3024: Jan 9th 2018 at 5:54:02 PM

Macron visiting China and offering to counter Trump's ideas.

Both Macron and Xi are quite keen on working together on preventing climate change, which is nice - China's recent pro-green energy stance is something I genuinely respect and support.

     Article 
BEIJING — He came bearing gifts, including a brown horse named Vesuvius plucked from the French presidential cavalry. He tried his hand at Mandarin. He journeyed to an ancient capital to pay respects to China’s first emperor.

President Emmanuel Macron of France, during a three-day visit to China this week, has worked at every turn to win over China’s leaders, hoping to reinvigorate ties between the two countries as they grapple with the strident nationalism of President Trump.

Mr. Macron and President Xi Jinping, during meetings this week, articulated a vision sharply at odds with Mr. Trump’s worldview. They spoke of a need for free trade and rallied against protectionism. They embraced multilateralism and praised institutions like the United Nations.

And they emphasized the importance of working together to combat climate change, as the United States backs away from global efforts to reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.

Mr. Macron, speaking briefly in Mandarin on Monday, repeated one of his favorite jabs at Mr. Trump, saying it was time to “make our planet great again.”

Mr. Xi, speaking at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on Tuesday, emphasized a desire to “protect multilateralism” and called for an “open world economy” — a mantra that he has embraced repeatedly since Mr. Trump’s election despite China’s own market restrictions.

Ding Chun, the director of the Centre for European Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai, said a stronger alliance between France and China was natural given that the two leaders had similar views.

“Both President Xi and President Macron think differently from Trump’s ‘make America great again’ philosophy,” Mr. Ding said. “They both believe in opening up and multilateralism.”

Analysts said Mr. Macron was positioning himself as a reliable ally of China at a time when much of the West is in disarray. The United States, under Mr. Trump, is withdrawing from the world stage, and Britain and Germany are grappling with domestic political struggles.

“Macron in a way is trying to represent the West to China,” said Jean-Philippe Béja, an emeritus senior research fellow at Sciences Po in Paris. “There’s an attempt at lifting China as a partner on the world scene.”

Still, Mr. Béja expressed concern that Mr. Macron was moving too quickly to embrace China and paying too little attention to issues like China’s efforts to build artificial islands in the South China Sea, despite objections from neighboring countries, and its human rights abuses.

“He is aware of possible dangers, but I’m not sure he’s aware of what Xi Jinping’s China is,” Mr. Béja said.

As Mr. Macron called for a “new relationship” with China, he offered praise for Mr. Xi’s signature “One Belt, One Road” initiative, a $1 trillion plan that would remake the global economic order. The plan promises to revive ancient Silk Road routes connecting China to Central Asia, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Europe through enormous infrastructure projects.

Many Western officials have greeted the initiative with caution, worried that China is seeking to rewrite international rules to serve its political and economic interests.

But Mr. Macron seemed to welcome the program. He began his trip to China on Monday in Xian, an ancient Silk Road capital, and said France was ready to play a “leading role” in “One Belt, One Road,” according to Chinese news reports.

Still, Mr. Macron warned that the effort should not be “one-way,” Reuters reported, and he spoke of the dangers of hegemony.

Mr. Macron is seeking closer economic ties to help reduce France’s $36 billion trade deficit with China. On Tuesday, he and Mr. Xi presided over the signing of billions of dollars in trade agreements between French and Chinese companies in areas like aviation, agriculture and nuclear energy. China also agreed to lift an embargo on French beef.

Even as Mr. Macron embraces close trade ties with China, he has called for more rigorous scrutiny of Chinese investments in competitive industries in Europe.

“There is a growing wariness and caution about what kind of investments and what kind of companies China is acquiring in Europe and France,” said Jean-Pierre Cabestan, a professor of politics at Hong Kong Baptist University. “The big question for France is how can we keep an edge on China.”

Mr. Macron’s decision to give Mr. Xi an 8-year-old horse named Vesuvius gained widespread attention in China. Some commenters wondered whether Mr. Macron was making an allusion to the transliteration of his name into Chinese, which forms a phrase that roughly means “horse overcomes dragon.”

French officials said the gift was a nod to Mr. Xi’s interest in the horses he saw during a visit to Paris in 2014.

Vesuvius was brought to China on a separate plane. He remained in quarantine as of Tuesday evening, Chinese officials said.

edited 9th Jan '18 5:54:45 PM by TheWildWestPyro

Ominae (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3025: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:10:01 PM

Tokyo's filing more protests against Seoul regarding the 2015 agreement on the comfort women issue.

More details here.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180110_35/


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