The General Russia Thread

So Russian Guy Suffers Most is a self reinforcing trope inside Russia?

It is. Although it should be said that this is mostly a historical myth with little basis in reality that was born out of the Russians' own self-pity and spread to other countries through Russian classical and especially Soviet literature and Western Bloc Cold War propaganda.

They already are cut beyond repair. Let me tell you a truthful fact - I earn more per month than a state doctor here.

Whenever someone says "you can do things with your government" it helps to clarify, which parts - the top parts, that will just drown your voice with the sound of their yachts, or the bottom parts, who spent all the budget on the air they used for saying "We can't help you".

I'd answer that, but I don't think that I'll be able to convince you to change your position.

edited 19th Feb '16 9:05:20 AM by KnitTie

It's not about changing my position. It's about presenting your case to the audience. This isn't a private club, lurkers exist. If you are disinterested in that - it's your choice and I'll respect it, but I do want to make it clear I have never been the point.

Well, if you want me to say it for the lurkers, the bottom parts of Russia's "vertical of power" are much more benign and can be borderline cooperative, especially if they come from the local community and thus have a vested interest in its improvement. There are two reasons for why they frequently do so little: firstly, there is a lack of communication between the people and the government that tends to result in the government just plain not knowing what the people actually want it to do, and secondly, most institutions in Russia still operate on the Soviet principle of running everything through an obtuse, pettifogging bureaucracy that often stops grassroots initiative dead in its tracks because the functionaries are afraid that nothing is permitted without explicit authorisation by the higher-ups, and both of these reasons can be eliminated through a change in the political culture, but good luck trying to bring it about while Putin is still in power.

edited 19th Feb '16 10:15:45 AM by KnitTie

In a crossover with the Ukraine/Eastern Europe thread, Bellingcat has released an extensive, detailed report on who shot down MH17. You can probably guess the conclusions by the thread I posted it in.

I'm surprised they're still focusing on that, now that everybody has switched onto Russia bombing hospitals and moderate rebels and all.

edited 26th Feb '16 7:32:32 PM by KnitTie

Bellingcat has multiple contributors, including those who specialise in geolocating locations featured in Daesh press releases or targeting camera videos.

The comments section is batshit, and I doubt the paid trolls aren't outnumbered by those who genuinely believe PrisonPlanet to be a valid news source.

Thorough factfinding takes time. I mean, just have a leaf through and take a look at the effort they put into this monster.

Last time they did this was with Assad's chemical weapon attacks, and I imagine the recent hospital bombings are next on their list.

Those people are either crazy, or have a very wierd definition of fun, to spend so much effort on stuff that nobody remembers or cares about anymore and which wasn't even questioned in the first place.

Truly, as the Russian saying goes, "The want is worse than the whip."

We have reached Stage Five, I see.

edited 27th Feb '16 4:37:28 AM by Achaemenid

*pops on the "real world issues" section of the Low Yat forums and pops back off before permanent brain damage ensues*

Those types of people are much more common than you think. Both types.

I'm not talking about the internet warriors here, of course.

You know, after checking out that forum and downing a shot or two of spirits to help my mind cope with the sheer inanity, it seems to me that our breeds of internet pundits are quite similar. The only major difference is that yours tend to focus more on pure conspirology, while ours prefer to dedicate themselves to conspirological alarmism instead.

edited 27th Feb '16 10:05:21 AM by KnitTie

There were 298 fatalities. I'm pretty sure some folks remember and care. The Kremlin's already rejected the report, too, so it's not just Internet warriors going denialist on this one.

edited 27th Feb '16 7:16:36 AM by Iaculus

Especially their families.

That's still very few people caring, generally speaking, and those people were the last ones to need any sort of research to blame Russia and/or the rebels. I think one woman even tried cutting Strelkov a check for several million dollars.

Kremlin's never going to not reject a report like that - hardcore denialism is our government's modus operandi when responding to critics, up to and including claiming straight-up silly things (e.g. that it was the USA that bombed Aleppo). And it's not like an investigation by internet activists has any legal or official weight behind it, anyway.

edited 27th Feb '16 7:27:57 AM by KnitTie

Dude, we're talking about a nation shooting down another nation's airliner, killing almost three hundred people, and then investing considerable effort in a misinformation campaign about it. Frankly, I'd say going 'meh, yesterday's news' is considerably more odd.

What I find odd is people being surprised. Denial is the first thing you do, especially since the shooters were essentially part of a covert action. There's absolutely nothing special about this.

Moreover, as I've already said, Russia tends to deny anything and everything it's ever accused of doing. It's a policy, at this point.

So you're expecting people who grew bored of talking about 250,000-500,000 deaths in Syria that are mounting right now to not grow bored of talking about less than 300 deaths in Ukraine that happened almost 2 years ago?

edited 27th Feb '16 8:35:51 AM by KnitTie

My opinion on the shootdown remains the same as it was the day it happened: Fog of war fuck up.

That was followed by Russia getting staggeringly uncooperative and digging itself into a hole.

edited 27th Feb '16 10:03:36 AM by KnitTie

True, however just like the US bombing of a hospital in Afghanistan (or more similarly the US shooting down of an Iranian civilian plane), some fog of war fuck ups can include negligence and thus criminal negligence.

It not being deliberate doesn't make it okay, manslaughter over murder and all that.

edited 27th Feb '16 10:18:50 AM by Silasw

No, but then there is blame to go around. Even if there was no specific threat, why the hell would anyone approve of flying over an active warzone?

Judging by flightradar it's pretty common, for whatever reason. I suppose the approval came from the assumption there was nothing that could shoot them from the sky. Quite simply a bad call. On all sides.