Batman: Arkham Knight

That's true. Neither Scarecrow or Joker are physical matches for Batman. One problem with superhero stories in general is that they are rarely the underdog. Batman and Superman are always the sure bet and odds-on favorite. Spiderman is one exception even if he has powers all his big enemies are more powerful than he is, he's legitimately the underdog whereas that's not true for Iron Man, Captain America and others.

Still, getting back, I can't picture Hugo Strange going mano-e-mano with the Arkham Batman who beats up Titan monsters and hundreds of thugs like its no big deal.

I think if they made a battle where Hugo mimics Batman to the point where you can't tell them apart like so, it'd be right up Rocksteady's Mind Screw alley. Given the story, you could probably further justify it by having Batman be worn out and weakened by the Joker toxin.

And it gets to something that I mentioned a few pages back, that the games rarely if ever managed to make a fight sequence where Batman fights an enemy of roughly equal power; rather than enemies who are either vastly physically superior or laughably inferior. The only time they ever even really tried was with Deathstroke.

edited 28th Jul '15 10:16:11 AM by DrDougsh

The one I felt was a huge waste was Lady Shiva, she was this badass ninja woman in the comics and she's not up to scratch in Origins. Deathstroke fight was good. Likewise we don't really fight Ras Al Ghul at his prime in good conditions. Here Ra's is kind-of zonked out and sleepy and then you fight in this hallucinatory world where occassionally if you manage to land a punch on real Ra's, you flash back in the real-world for moments. It's kinda cheesy.

The boss fights where Batman was up against someone bigger than him are Poison Ivy, Clayface, Solomon Grundy (who I feel is very out of place) and those are classic game fights. Mr. Freeze was genuinely the best one, it was one time Batman was really an underdog because Freeze is clearly at peak condition, his tech is working and he's not messing around. You can't beat him straight up and you had to use every trick in the book and really know your environment and movements well. If the Arkham games are faulted for genuinely weak boss fights they did give one all-time classic there.

Also the Titan thugs, Bane, Titan Joker, Killer Croc (kinda) and the Riddler in his mech. I might be forgetting some.

I think the trade-off with making a game that was about "Being Batman" meant that you couldn't give him really strong enemies. Because otherwise you would have to nerf him somehow. In the game, Wolverine's Revenge, that's what they did. Wolverine got a disease that prevented his healing factor from working at once, he had to put the claws in and out to do so. Then he fought Magneto who was also nerfed for some reason but still super-powerful. There was one good boss fight with Wendigo in that game if I recall, and another with Juggernaut.

I think ultimately the only real Boss Fight worthy of Arkham Batman is...Superman! That would take place across the whole Arkham Knight map, Batman uses Detective Mode to find all the lead signatures in the city and uses that as cover for Superman's X-ray vision. Meanwhile he has to go to a secret base in Wayne Plaza which stores Kryptonite, he uses the Batmobile to distract Superman by faking his signature and vitals and he has to grapple and glide carefully. Then he gets Kryptonite, and he has to weaken Superman and overwhelm him somehow.

edited 28th Jul '15 10:45:03 AM by JulianLapostat

I am kind of disappointed that there wasn't a rooftop chase / airspace action scene, Man-Bat was just a series of ambushes and Firefly was another driving segment at mostly ground level.

Lady Shiva was disappointing, but at least she wasn't a drawn out mission to complete. Firefly in Origins was a halfway decent battle because it was a combination of tech vs. tech, environment navigation and action commands when the battle went to the skies. But the problem with a lot of the Arkham boss battles is that the gameplay is railroaded to a very particular set of actions, (ie the Bane fight: fight minions around him, wait for him to charge, throw batarang to distract him, pull one of his tubes). The Mr. Freeze fight was awesome because of the gradually reduced options you get from the start (no vantage points) and having to constantly try new strategies against him, which made the fight filled with tension. In Origins when you come up on the Killer Croc fight, I was genuinely surprised that it didn't have "throw batarang to distract them" element and you could just attack him normally. It was a bit unrefined in terms of how you fight him, but that made it more fun because it wasn't railroaded. Bane in Origins was similar, they still had the "attack the venom tubes" element but it was more of a countdown to beating him instead of being what beats him.

Playing Knight a second time with finding all the bombs, checkpoints and firefighters is quite a chore, especially when the riddles, riddler bombs and trophies are pre-solved. The only nice thing is that watchtowers are easy enough to spot.

I agree that aside from a few standouts across the series the Arkham games have lackluster bosses for one reason or another.

The fun from these titles comes from playing as a fully realized Batman. All the technology, all the stealth, all the Beat em up action, all the traveling feels exactly like the Batman you'd be familiar with. Throw him into a Wide-Open Sandbox and the fun increases higher.

I was wondering about something. If there was a port of this game on the Nintendo "NX" with exclusive DLC using Nintendo I Ps, would you go out and buy it?

One specific idea was giving Batman a Link suit and change up many of his gadgets to look like Lo Z items.

[[youtube:51eCGX98ofM]]

Be the Man-Bat.

So I just finished the game. The credits mentioned Danny Elfman's Batman theme, but I don't remember it playing anywhere in the game.

Where can I find it? Also, is the Season Pass worth buying?

All we have at this point is "A Matter of Family" and I have somewhat mixed feelings on it. It's really nice to have a new focus character with Batman nowhere near the story, but combat feels a step backwards and controls are clunky (Origins got a lot of flak for the lackluster playtesting, but's it's unfortunately gotten rather common in the current gaming community, just see the Arkham Knight PC version).

But as for the DLC, it makes me interested in a prequel set during that time period. The sequence where Batman and Robin go after the Joker infected is all sorts of awesome, love the Bash Brothers routine before knocking down doors. Having a more consistent ally working with you during the story would really liven up the format.

edited 30th Jul '15 2:02:28 PM by KJMackley

So what, I should wait during the six month for certain intriguing DL Cs?

I kinda wish the Red Hood DLC was way longer; Jason deserves his own story. Especially considering the game's reveals and ending. A perfect setup.

But that doesn't answer my first question...

Danny Elfman's theme has been Batman's main theme since the first game, I think.

As for the Season Pass, it's really up to you if it's worth it or not. They haven't actually announced everything that's in it yet, so there's really no way to say if you'll want all the DLC yet.

Really?

Hold on; when I think of the theme, I go to the one used in the Michael Keaton films (obviously since Elfman was involved) and the theme used in the animated series, which IS the movie's theme.

Maybe I should youtube it later...

Anyway, let's say I waited until they revealed all the DLC's, THEN I buy the pass... will I get them all the instant I buy it? I honestly don't know how this season pass thing works.

I don't know myself but going by logic you should be able to get all the content at once after the season pass period is over and if not there's some bad descision making going on for you to wait for yet another season pass. But of course it's gonna be a pain to download since the amount of space it would take up will be significant I imagine and the time it will take lengthy.

On the topic of a Strange boss fight though. The point was he's supposed to be trained well enough to be a bodybuilder but he trains in muscle pushing exercise. He doesn't seem to train in martial arts and that was why he couldn't hold his own against Batman in his tower even if he wanted to. It even stated in his profile that he trained himself to physical perfection but no mention of fighting techniques or martial arts.

People wanted a real fight with Scarecrow as well. This could actually make sense because that gave me an idea. Batman fights multiple copies of Scarecrow in likely predator based sections. How could he identify the real one? By subtle differences that are out of his character. Like how can Scarecrow be able to give Batman a run for his money in figthing? He can't. So you know that's a hallucination. Since when could Scarecrow do all those neat tricks with a scythe and not cut himself? He can't. That's a hallucination. Since when did he start making that many fear related puns? He never did in this series so that's a hallucination. Should he really be terrifed this early and still act so calmly? He shouldn't. That's a hallucination though that would be interesting if it was really him and that's how he deals with fear by stoicism.

I could go on but you get the idea. Oh and if you get the real Scarecrow it's a regular takedown like with Freeze in Arkham City but if it's a hallucination he turns into a murder of crows.

edited 31st Jul '15 11:05:25 AM by Imoo57

So, basically the Copperhead boss fight from Origins?

The Nightmare Missions did have boss fights of sorts with the Scarecrow.

In general, a Season Pass just lets you buy all the DLC included in it (which is often, but not always, all DLC for a game) at a discounted rate to buying it all separately. Occasionally, as in the case of Arkham Knight, you will also get access to that content slightly earlier than people who do not buy the pass.

If you wait for all the content to be out, then yes, you'll get it all at once. If you buy it halfway through the content release period, you'll get all the stuff that's already out, and have to wait for the stuff that isn't yet. Etc.

Not exactly. Imagine a predator challenge map with copies of Scarecrow roaming around with different behaviours, speech patterns and weapons. Getting the wrong one results in the copy you did a takedown on turning into a murder of crows. The real Scarecrow then quickly approaches you (This wouldn't happen on silent takedowns) and quickly injects you then runs off as Batman takes a knock on his health and more copies than before appear as the room slowly becomes more twisted (Not in a platform Arkham Asylum way in a slow and subtle one like the billboards you see around the city or what a room would look like in Eternal Darkness.)

Sure it sounds like Copperhead but that was basically copies of her all acting exactly the same and then throwing themselves at you. But the principle of "Find the real one." applies. I don't know if this would have a health bar for Scarecrow though since he's nowhere near Batman's physical match. I imagine it to be a possible one hit win battle if you get it right but if you get it wrong then preapre for a That One Boss.

I can also see a Joker! Scarecrow like when you had to choose between two Scarecrows and he says somehting like "Just what is the point to all this Bats? I think it should be pretty obvious by now don't you?" if you find him. Refering to the fact that since you found the most out there and unusual Scarecrow then you should figure out what the way to beat Scarecrow is.

So yeah similar to Copperhead but a predator section and more twisted with additional surreality. No health bar for Scarecrow though. So he'd be taken down as easily as Two Face was in this game. A combination of the Copperhead boss fight with the Mr.Freeze boss fight along with Scarecrow's own twisted toxin flavour.

The Scarecrow boss fight in the nightmare sections seemed to lack creativity or innovation. He's basically a Flunky Boss who throws fireballs at you with other attacks. Weird how he's The Unfought in the main story though.

I guess if you keep getting it wrong the Joker! Scarecrow would comment on it. "Come on Bats! Eddie couldn't figure this out and you outsmarted him plenty of times!"

"You're not very good at this are you?"

"Both of our lives are on the line here Bruce!"

"Ohhhh if I hear those birds squaking away one more time there definetly will be a murder!"

Oh forgot Joker actually wants more toxin. Guess he would encourage and belittle Batman.

edited 31st Jul '15 11:17:15 AM by Imoo57

The problem with Strange in City and Scarecrow in Knight is not the lack of difficulty to confront them, but that actually confronting them was not its own, specific thing. Scarecrow in Asylum was a direct confrontation made more impressive via metaphysical exaggeration, you fought skeletons and even your own fears. In Knight the entire game is theoretically Batman confronting his fears, so there was nothing to actually do against Scarecrow at the end.

I think lackluster boss battles was perhaps Asylum's most obvious flaw. They greatly improved themselves in City, and the boss battles in Origins were perhaps the most impressive thing about the game. That's why it was particularly disappointing that Knight largely skipped boss battles, and the ones outside of the Batmobile didn't have any interesting mechanics. Not to devalue the amount of work they put into this game, but with the game being delayed by around 9 months, it makes me more inclined to be critical when I see that there they took out significant features of the previous game, instead of adding to what they had done before.

I know that Hugo Strange isn't a physical match for Batman, but I can't help but feel like they could've done better with him. Maybe I feel that way because Batman overcomes so much that a part of me wants to root for the bad guys, just because they're the underdogs.

While I think the final confrontation with the Hallucination Joker is one of the most memorable parts of the game, I still think that they could've done more with Scarecrow. Maybe have Bruce give him a speech on his own fears, or his hallucination being something other than a demonic Batman (Because we haven't see that before...).

When they announced Scarecrow as the main villain, I thought that maybe they'd have segments similar to the Scarecrow encounters in the first game, where a portion of the city becomes warped and Batman has to take on some twisted kinds of enemies. They had a decent amount of Mind Screw in this game, but it wasn't really on the level I was hoping for. Even the Nightmare missions don't impress me that much. Since they take place exclusively in the Batmobile, the environment and enemies aren't as intimate as they would be otherwise.

Here's September's DLC:

• Crime Fighter Challenge Pack #1: Six AR Challenge Maps for Batman, Robin, Nightwing, and Catwoman. There are both combat and predator maps, so it's probably three of each.
• GCPD Lockdown: A story sequence set after the game where you play as Nightwing to thwart and escape attempt by the Penguin.
• 2008 Tumbler Batmobile Pack: The Tumbler based on its appearance in The Dark Knight.
• Original Arkham Batman Skin: The suit from Arkham Asylum.

I have to say Rocksteady's DLC has been a disappointment. Unless they have something really spectacular, a story DLC on the scale of Undead Nightmare/Tyranny of King Washington/Dishonored's Daud, then I don't really see any purpose in this extra stuff.

Nightwing really seems to have something against Penguin all of a sudden.

Once again Arkham's DLC continues to be underwhelming or So Okay, It's Average