CW's Flash

If Eddie gets conventionally resurrected, Eobard conventionally comes back. Since it seems like we're getting original Wells and/or AU Zoom, it's reasonable to assume that we're getting AU Eddie.

I'll take what I can get.

And until then, fanfic.

I don't think so. Having a Replacement Goldfish Eddie from another dimension wouldn't be as good an option of just bringing back the original Eddie (that is, if they're going to do it in the first place), given that an alternate Eddie wouldn't have the history or the connection to the other characters that this Eddie does. It's similar to the fan theory that Killer Frost is going to be an alternate Caitlin in that sense.

I could see that sort of episode as a single episode plot (like an alternate Eddie appears, unaware of what happened to his version, and the characters angst for a bit), but not as the actual return of the character.

But I think it's unlikely that the show will be using alternate universes in that way in the first place. Just because Word of God says we'll be getting stuff like Earth 2 doesn't mean we'll be seeing alternate versions of everybody (in fact, if the template for alternate universes is Earth 2 then seeing alternate versions of anybody might be less likely than we think).

edited 28th Jun '15 5:55:11 PM by KnownUnknown

Agreed. I want /our/ eddie back. I could go for a new eddie who isn't forced to or expected to become our eddie. maybe as a first clue that this is an AU, or something. but I liked Eddie a lot.

I'm probably going to go AU enough in Metakitties to spare him. We'll see how it works out.

Unknown: I know that my scenario means weak story opportunities, but I'm fairly certain that conventional Eddie equals conventional Wells, which would be even weaker. In other words, Eddie revives, and Eobard's existence again becomes plausible, meaning that he's being born in 2xxx.

Pretty much. but I mean, as is we're in a cycle. No eddie means no Eobard means no particle accelarator in 2013/14/15 means none of this happens means Eddie never does the Thing, means there is an Eobard, and so on and so forth. So....yeah.

Damn your realistic time-logic, The Flash.

edited 28th Jun '15 6:37:55 PM by SpaceWolf

For a given definition of realistic.

I still say that by the series' own logic Eddie dying shouldn't have affected Eobard at all.

Stopping Weather Wizard didn't effect Day-Old Barry in any meaningful way besides putting him in a strange present, after all.

Time travel in this series doesn't always work in a consistent way (the whole thing with Farooq still doesn't quite gel with the rest of the series, for instance). Which if they want to finagle in a way Wells or Eddie could return, they can do so - Silver Age style.

edited 28th Jun '15 7:38:47 PM by KnownUnknown

Stopping Weather Wizard didn't affect Barry because Barry's existence didn't depend on the Weather Wizard being not imprisoned. Barry was going to be there whether the Weather Wizard was loose or not, it's just some events happened differently.

Eobard's whole existence depends on Eddie's continual survival. That's why he kidnapped him - to keep him safe until he could do his whole "time travel back to my own time" thing. But if Eddie dies, then Eobard is never born.

And then Eobard never comes back in time and Eddie lives and then Eobard is born and then Eddie dies and then, uh, black hole divide by zero please enter cucumber.

Yeah, I was expecting Eobard to laugh at Eddie's attempt.

I mean, I liked their take, but they didn't really work out the way time travel would work like they should know fans would. And I'm disappointed because they're still BETTER at this than most other time travel stories.

edited 28th Jun '15 9:10:55 PM by crazysamaritan

That was another of my theories, and it would have been si much worse emotionally. Senseless sacrifice and all. Those always make me cry.

Since events happened differently, that means that Barry's course of events - since the time travel itself is defined by those events - is just as null and void as Eobard's was when Eddie was killed - if it's a rule, severity or weight of the alteration doesn't change that it should happen in the first place.

If Weather Wizard didn't create the tidal wave, Barry had no reason to go back in time, and thus wouldn't have in that universe. For time travel to be consistent, Barry would have to be effected in some way - the worst case scenario would be a paradox, but that didn't happen even with Eobard (as far as we know) so he's safe on that front. Since Eobard was wiped from existence when his ancestor was killed (meaning that, all of a sudden, a time traveller can't exist when they've altered their timeline to prevent their own presence), what should have happened is Barry should have either warped to the future in the new timeline, arguably unaware that any change had taken place. Or, if we're being harsh, he should have poofed out of existence to be replaced with a Barry from that timeline.

Even moreso, if we're to believe that with Eddie's death everything Eobard did while travelling through time was undone (a popular theory at the moment), then that also should have happened with Weather Wizard - thus leading to either a paradox or at least a trip back that accomplished nothing. The episode after the first jump back pretty much establishes (with Wells himself confirming) that rather than necessarily wiping out their old timeline (and themselves with it) the time traveller now exists within a new one - which should apply to Eobard as well.

(Not to mention the weirdness with Barry seeing his future/past self, which throws a wrench into the whole thing entirely (at first it implies that the time travel is stable, when it isn't), yet replacing his past self when he meets him again)

Though note I'm arguing for the opposite: I don't think Barry should have been wiped out, I think Eobard shouldn't have been. Barry travelling back isn't the only thing that really works to the favor of Eobard's survival (the biggest thing for that is that Eobard's existence is already reduntant, yet he's been totally fine up until this point).

This series typically portrays time travel as being very centered on the present (except when it doesn't) - the character isn't preserving or altering the future, they're creating a new present with every moment, come what may. This allows the time traveller to do whatever and not be affected by the consequences, since they're now a part of the new timeline rather than being tied to the old one (which no longer exists at all). It's why for some reason Flash losing his powers in an incident that doesn't involve time travel at all somehow changed the future, and why that future changed again when Barry figured out how to get his powers back (largely without Wells' input) - because the future isn't changing as much as the time traveller seeing a projection from the point in time where he is.

It's kind of like being Trunks from DBZ, except actually being in your own timeline. You can alter the past, but you're not affected by the changed future because that future doesn't exist for you to be a part of it any more.

It's the only thing I could think of that explains everything (including the newspaper), and it was actually consistent up until Eobard was wiped out. Put short, the series can't decide whether the time traveller exists outside of time or not. In Barry's case, he does for some reason. Eobard's case, he didn't. If we wanted to give an explanation... er... speed force.

Not that weird and not-bothering-to-be consistent timey wimey shenanigans isn't as integral a part of Flash's history as superspeed itself, mind.

<edit> Wow, that was long.

edited 29th Jun '15 12:01:11 AM by KnownUnknown

When Eobard vanished, however, nothing else vanished, so it doesn't look like anything else was changed.

It looks like we're playing with Back to the Future rules.

I hate time travel. So confusing. But if it keeps Cisco alive (check) and possibly brings back Eddie... I'll be chill with it.

Cisco's multiverse awareness will make things interesting.

I do like that nod to Vibe.

I wonder if they will ever have Cisco breakdancing?

I would be genuinely surprised if they miss that opportunity with or without him being Vibe.

So if they are multiple Vibes across the multiverse and they are have that awareness can they communicate with each other through some sort "Vibe-force"?

maybe in the musical episode we all crave. (they can all sing, or most of them can, so where is my musical episode????)

....Metahuman Music Meister? Played by Neal Patrick Harris?

Given that it's The Flash, it's more likely to be someone like The Fiddler (since Pied Piper doesn't use that kind of weaponry in this universe).

edited 30th Jun '15 6:56:37 AM by KnownUnknown

Or they go the Arrow route and introduce a special herb that releases a person's inhibitions which has the side effect of making the break into song.

Unsurprisingly, Oliver has seen this before.

So...Everybody Must Get Stoned?

I want Oliver to be there simply for his deeply annoyed "You got to be kidding me" face.

I don't care how it happens, I just really want it to happen.

also I'm working on the next chapter of Metakittens. Ronnie shows up in this one, and Eiling's plans did not account for kittens with superpowers.