General Middle East & North Africa Thread

Since when has the US showing footage of captives been called a crime by anyone serious ever?

Like I said, the Turks went ballistic over the Hood event

Sure but I don't seen even that (which due to being done to an ally and the specifics of the use of hoods, can be seen as more exstream) being called a crime. The Turks got outraged and threatened diplomatic consequences, but they don't seem to have called it a crime and seem to have been pissed because it was their ally doing it.

There's this : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

I vaguely remember the shit storm caused by the photos.

Though its probably something else entirely...

edited 13th Jan '16 3:03:28 PM by Skycobra51

Yeah maybe it's the "torture and prisoner abuse" that people were upset about? Unless you've got some evidence to suggest that Iran tortured the sailors your comparison is way off.

They did torture yours though back in 2007.

Edit: People were not only pissed about the torture, but about the uniforms and other things, as it "deprived the prisoners of their dignity." I wasn't aware prisoners were supposed to have dignity.

edited 13th Jan '16 3:11:25 PM by JackOLantern1337

You did ask "Since when has the US showing footage of captives been called a crime by anyone serious ever?"

You didn't specify the context, and the picture were shown on news reports when it was leaked so the US technically did show footage, and there was outrage...

edited 13th Jan '16 3:19:19 PM by Skycobra51

I can't understand what you're trying to say here.

Who are "people" and what does being "pissed" actually mean? Did they call it a crime that they were put in particular uniforms?

Are you trolling? My question was clear, when has the act of showing pictures of captives been called a crime, nobody called the US showing the pictures of what happened a crime, they called what happened a crime.

I'm not trolling. If I was you'd know.

Besides I wasn't pissed about the pictures.

What pissed me off the most was the forced apology that was clearly done under duress, as well as treating them like Prisoners of War, despite the fact we're not even at war.

edited 13th Jan '16 3:27:09 PM by Skycobra51

Your pissed that they were made to apologise for accidentally invading another country?

Seriously?

And yeah they were treated as Po Ws, that's what you do with captured members of a hostile military. It's that or treat them as common criminals who acted outside their chain of command. I don't know how a bunch of heavily armed civilians invading Iranian waters would be treated but I can guarantee it wouldn't be that nicely.

Plus not being officially at war (which nobody ever is now anyone) hasn't stopped all sorts of shit in the past, why should it matter now?

edited 13th Jan '16 3:29:35 PM by Silasw

Except it was clear the boats had mechanical issues, the IRG even confirmed it, so it wasn't really an invasion.

edited 13th Jan '16 3:33:21 PM by Skycobra51

Thus the "accidentally", but you still apologise even then. We apologised when we accidentally invaded Spain.[1] The Swiss did the same after their accidental invasion of Liechtenstein.[2]

You apologise when you accidentally invade another country's territory, it's just good manners.

Yeah I don't get this meme of "America is weak when we act like every other country" on matters of form. Like the whole "Obama bowed! We don't bow!"

There are serious issues with Obama that need to be sussed out and debated, but that wasn't one of them, and neither is this.

In other news, Aljazeera America is going to be shut down by the end of April.

Eh. Not surprised. Sad that the channel, previously Current TV, can't catch a break.

I do wonder if CBSN will try to take the slot next. Up and coming network.

The BBC is reporting that a now-infamous USD681 million donation to Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak was made with the approval of the late King Abdullah in a Saudi bid to check the power of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Odd, since even the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party has very little in common with the Muslim Brotherhood, much less frequent contact with them.

Maybe he paid to keep it that way.

Reuters: British Airways to begin flying to Iran from July 14

We were talking about Oman and the UAE and how close they are to Saudi Arabia in the terrorism thread and I figured I'd hop that discussion over here, specifically as I'd like to talk about the Gulf Cooperstion Council (GCC).

So quick crash course, the GCC is a regional organisation (consisting of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the UAE and Oman) and has a fair similarity to other organisations like the EU and USAN (Union of South American Nations). In 2011 the Saudis apparently pushed for the GCC to effectively federalise, now this didn't happen due to pushback from Kuwait, Qatar and Oman, but the idea was put forward as a serious one. The Bahrain regime apparently was still pushing for the idea in 2014.

The GCC customs union was fully implemented in January 2015, additions more changes were bought about, according to Wikipedia this mean, "full equality among GCC citizens to work in the government and private sectors, social insurance and retirement coverage, real estate ownership, capital movement, access to education, health and other social services in all member states. However, some barriers remained in the free movement of goods and services"

Plans for a single currency are apparently underway, with businesses apparently using a basket of all their currencies for trading, however Oman and the UAE have apparently withdrawn from the single currency plans, but in 2014 the other four members went ahead with steps towards it, a monetary council exists within the GCC since 2009 and has the job of bring about the single currency, with the 2014 push also including new negotiations to get Oman and the UAE back in.

Infrastructure is also apparently being connected, with a water connection plan being aimed to at least in part being running by 2020 and full rail integration being scheduled to be done by 2018.

There's a GCC patent office that covers the entire GCC and standardisation and industrialisation constellation organisations that also include Yemen.

On security there's the shield force, a joint military force with a joint military command as of the end of 2013, it was in part deployed to Bahrain in 2011, but that was only Saudi and UAE troops, with a Kuwait navy unit and nothing from Oman of Qatar.

However there appears to be a rift forming, Qatar is acting independently when it comes to forign policy and has had some big splits with Saudi Arabia over stuff like the Muslim Brotherhood, Kuwait and Oman are staying neutral on the whole thing but Bahrain and the UAE are siding with Saudi Arabia.

On the expansion front of the GCC, Jordan had its request to join accepted (after 15 years) in 2011 and Morocco was also invited, a plan has been it forward but there's no actual timetable yet.

So that's the GCC, what are people's thoughts on it and did I get anything wrong on it?

Algeria reinstates term limits and recognizes the Berber language.

I think Bahrain, using the GCC framework (and probably lots of intermarriages between the families) will merge with Saudi Arabia. Kuwait will remain friendly but neutral, Oman is Arab Switzerland and likes to keep it that way, Qatar will keep playing wild card as long as its economy allows, and the UAE will be a close close ally but will not merge. They are more likely to merge with the other Gulf states first before doing so with Saudia.

I don't think you got anything wrong BTW. The GCC's history seems pretty cut and dry. I love the idea of it though, for what it can eventually be used for. But said amalgamation won't happen for some time between all of them as I've noted in the above paragraph.

And I just wondered about Algeria too...

Seems the regime may be trying to stave off an Arab Spring type revolt in preparation for transition? Hm....

edited 8th Feb '16 7:23:29 AM by FFShinra

The US should prepare for the collapse of Saudi Arabia.

Looks like the Saudis have allowed Canadian (and probably stuff from other countries) made weapons fall into Houthi hands. And Ottawa just let another weapons deal go ahead.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/canadian-rifles-may-have-fallen-into-yemen-rebel-hands-likely-via-saudi-arabia-1.3455889

Apparently the rebels are pretty happy with this prize, those guns are way more modern than the stuff they usually get their hands on.

Somalia's al-Shabab killed '180 Kenyan troops' in el-Ade

So BBC is reporting that the Iranian election has been extended twice due to sheer turnout. Possibly good news?