DC Comics General

(I'd heard it was Mark Waid—who's from a dysfunctional family himself, but it may have happened before he arrived on the scene)

I don't think it was Waid - it might have been William Messner-Loebs, who wrote the Wally West Flash before Mark Waid did. Or not - I do know that when Waid came aboard, he wrote an origin arc for Wally called "Born to Run."

IIRC, the Wests became a dysfunctional family in order to fit the whole Manhunters story line that was going on, which Rudy West would be revealed to be a part of.

Going back on the whole discussion about the darkening of DC, didn't Dan Didio once said that comics were only good when things (in the comic) were dark and bleak?

That'd be an odd thing for him to say, given that his favorite comic is The Metal Men. Not to say he DIDN'T say it, though.

It was that he didn't want any heroes to have happy personal lives.

"Please, I need your help desperately. What do people do on dates now?"

Oh my Gosh, I LOVE Justice League Beyond.

So according to tropers here rape is something that shouldn't be a story in comics? Ever?

Or if it is, then the writers MUST to go to forums and write long spiels so that their story becomes acceptable?

If you're going to write about sexual assault, you better really know what you're doing. There's a good example of doing it well somewhere in Sex Criminals vol. 1.

Some things you usually shouldn't do are use it to show that the bad guy is super extra bad or treat sexual violence as equivalent to other forms of violence.

(EDIT: Not that those those two issues are necessarily of extreme relevance to the discussion thusfar. I've only skimmed.)

edited 6th Oct '15 1:07:45 AM by StateOfBedlam

And don't treat male rape victims as if they were the same as a consenting adulterer!

Sexual assault is a tricky topic, and many writers do not handle it well, so comics fans tend to be kind of gun-shy about it in their comics—it can be used well, but seldom is.

Are you just having a female character raped so the male protagonist can have emotions about it? Then you might want to reconsider this plotline.

Indeed. If you can't do it right, don't use rape in your story.

I believe it was to tie the comic series into the television show currently airing since Wally is going to be black in the show.

So according to tropers here rape is something that shouldn't be a story in comics? Ever?

I'm just going to leave this link right here for you. And this one.

edited 6th Oct '15 7:14:19 AM by alliterator

Rob Liefeld defends Miller's DKIII cover

https://www.facebook.com/rob.liefeld/posts/10207509623681377

I think a defense from someone like Kurt Busiek might be better.

Yeah Busiek's defense was a lot better than Liefeld ranting about how Miller was beyond reproach because once upon a time he wrote comics that were good.

I’m saying it’s not the result of someone “losing it.” It’s the result of Frank wanting to say something different, that you don’t like. It’s not failure. It’s successfully saying something that you didn’t want him to say. But he wanted to, so he did.

In other news, Holy Terror was't the result of someone losing it, either. It was simply the result of Frank wanting to say something different (in how racist, insensitive and chauvinistic it was) that we didn't like (because it was racist, insensitive and chauvinistic).

And it wasn't a failure! Because it was as racist, insensitive and chauvinistic as it wanted to be! He wanted to be racist, insensitive and chauvinistic, so it's okay! Even if we don't like people being racist, insensitive and chauvinistic! Maybe if we're all racist, insensitive and chauvinistic the world will improve!

It's our fault for not liking the racist, insensitive and chauvinistic material Frank churns out now! How do we dare?!

Again, doesn’t mean you should like it. Lots of art, lots of opinions about it, that’s fine. But—

Somehow this reminds me of the typical "I'm not sexist/racist or anything, but—"

edited 6th Oct '15 11:10:29 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

I was in a conversation with some guy on CBR who had a... weird defense of Holy Terror. He admitted that it was problematic but never actually specified how it was problematic. His defense of the portrayal of Muslims in the story was that A) Natalie Stack (the Catwoman expy) served as the audience surrogate and only sane woman by pointing out how messed up the Fixer was and B) everyone in that story, not just the Arab terrorists, was an asshole.

A is invalidated by the fact that Stack's criticisms are not only ignored but they are shown to be meaningless within the context of the story. Not once is the Fixer's personality or his methods shown to have any negative consequences (indeed the story repeatedly bends over backwards to show him as in the right). If anything, Stack shows what Miller thinks of the people who would object to the Fixer and Miller himself- a useless, ineffectual moron who contributes nothing. Her making out with the guy despite supposedly being repulsed by him doesn't help.

B doesn't work because the portrayal of people of Arab origin is nowhere near as stereotypical and harmful as Miller's portrayal of the Caucasian characters. It's basically feeding into every paranoid, bigoted view of Arabs. That Miller opes the book with a quote falsely attributed to the Prophet Mhhammad is proof of this. Not to mention that even in a story where every character is a jerk, it's still possible to have a clear cut villain. Sin City has characters with several vices but we know that the Roarks and Ava Lord are the true bad guys despite everyone else's flaws.

Cassandra Cain! Woo!

I mean, I knew they were using her before the cover leaked, because I think Scott Snyder basically said he wanted to use her, but still: awesomesauce. And now she has to team up with Stephanie Brown!

edited 6th Oct '15 7:52:52 PM by alliterator

Part of me goes wooo the cynical part of mes wondering how the new 52s gonna fuck her up

Well, she's being handled by Scott Snyder and James Tynion IV, who are good writers, and she's still a good guy, which is more than I can say for her post-Infinite Crisis version.

There's still bad editors and future bad writers to worry about though.

Well, that applies to every character.

And of course, the anti-Cass crowd is out with the torches and pitchforks over her fight with Grayson. Why am I not surprised?

True but some have to worry about it more than others.

Scott Snyder is actually barely involved in Batman and Robin Eternal (and he was only really involved at the beginning of Batman Eternal) he's basically a supervisor at best. Its really Tynion running the show.

Eternal was kind of a mess. Seeley's issues were always good, and Fawkes's ones were pretty good too, but overall the whole thing felt like they were killing time with repetitive plots that never went anywhere. Making its sequel half the length was the best decision they could have made.

New Wonder Woman Digital Series Announced

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/10/13/new-titles-creative-changes-in-dc-comics-this-january