Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
http://militaryland.net/ukraine/operation-report-week-35/
Will recommend this site for OSINT intel on eastern Ukraine.
Also has info on the T-62s being moved.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Beware the Crazy Man.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yup. I just mean they can fulfill their reason for existance, even as a glorified IFV, rather than just rusting and doing nothing. I feel the same about Kiev's T-80s and derivatives.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://liveuamap.com/en/2018/3-september-russian-fsb-investigation-team-has-arrived-in
Got a recent OSINT update that a FSB team has arrived to take the lead in investigating Zarchenko's death.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1041690726747328513
Russian ambassador to UN says that Moscow has proof that the Buk was used by the Ukranians and not the anti-Ukrainian government fighters.
Found this tweet via Bellingcat.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
The law in the night
So, they have photoshoped a Buk in the middle of Maidan or something like that as proof
◊?
Autocephaly for Ukraine About More Than Religion
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Got an interesting on what's happening in Donetsk in the aftermath of Zarchenko's death on Twitter.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Some news via Liveuamap twitter that claims saboteurs supported by Kiev were detained.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
The LPR has announced early voting. The rest of the world is calling them out with the Kremlin for the elections.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
In the name of being honest
The Russians just attacked and seized two Ukrainian vessels on the Kerch Strait linking the Black Sea to the Sea of Azov and blocked the waterway, effectively isolating the southeastern coast.
Ukraine is calling for an emergency United Nations Security Council meeting.
Russia points to Ukraine as the aggressor (despite the fact the incident started with them ramming a tugboat). As if there wasn't already proof enough that Russia was acting in bad faith and effectively trolling western nations in this dispute...
Life is unfair...
As of about two hours ago Ukraine’s Secretary of National Security says that they’re convening the NSDC to officially declare a “state of war” with Russia.
They should have sent a poet.
So what are the implications of that exactly?
I know that Russia has been using Asymmetric Warfare against them for a long time now, but does formally declaring war change anything?
Edited by megaeliz on Nov 25th 2018 at 7:06:09 AM
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Basic logic says that Ukraine would now be de jure at war with Russia.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Nobody knows, but it wouldn’t be good. I predict that it would more or less be a sitting war, as Ukraine would be reluctant to provoke their much more powerful enemy, and Russia wouldn’t want to draw NATO into the conflict.
There isn’t really any such thing legally. One could argue that Ukraine has been at war with Russia, since this isn’t the first incident, but of course then the question becomes about what “war” even means.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Actually, yes, there is such a thing legally. It's called declaration of war, which is what the Ukrainian government has finally done.
I’m not sure I understand. Ukraine hasn’t officially declared war yet, only convened a council with the intent to do so. I was referring to the idea of a “de jure war”, which would probably be described as an “armed conflict” or something similar but is a massive legal grey area that most countries try to avoid. That’s why they’re convening this council so quickly.
Edited by archonspeaks on Nov 25th 2018 at 4:02:42 AM
They should have sent a poet.
A procrastination in of itself
Yeah it's currently in the grey area, but it's looking to move out of it.
What is likely to change is that all trade with or thought Ukraine with or to Russia will be halted, all travel between the two countries will end, all diplomats will be expelled. Plus it provides the justification for martial law, which is a big change.
A lot changes when a formal declaration of war is made, there's a reason that they are so rare.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The motion has passed. State of war is a go.
Do you have a source?
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Nothing in English.
Hold your horses...they didn't declare War against Russia or anything like that, they are imposing martial law on the area. There is a slight difference there. One means "we will fight you", the other means "if you do anything threatening at all in this area, there will be a reaction which will not be restricted by the usual laws, but we will assume that you are acting in a malicious manner and act accordingly without the need to go through a lot of channels".
Which btw also means that the Ukrainian leadership could post-bone the election next year...I hope they won't make that particular mistake. Because than Putin will claim that they use Russia as an excuse to stay in power.
Edited by Swanpride on Nov 26th 2018 at 1:48:33 AM
Beware the Crazy Man.
Poroshenko's domestic opponents already are saying that. It's why he had to reduce what he asked for from 60 to 30 days and spell out the election date not being changed in the wording of the act itself. And only apply it to the borderlands rather than throughout all Ukraine.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
I'm fully aware it's not a declaration of war, but someone else already said it here before me and I didn't think it necessary to repeat it.
Meanwhile they will be littered across some fields in Ukraine.
Those tanks, even with the add-on armor packages are hopelessly worthless against the ATG Ms and RP Gs the Ukrainians are fielding.
Though some armor still better than no armor and I wouldn't like to be the poor bastard who'd have to crew the T-62 anyway, specially since the T-62 is infamous for being downright awful to crew, let alone to survive in case of a penetration.
Inter arma enim silent leges