Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And yet it's still in the realm of petty corruption, which is less severe and, most importantly, much less immediate a problem than a looming default.
Not petty corruption, base systemic corruption, the kind of thing that international creditors really don't like.
Radical Moderate
Why can't they do both? The person in charge of the police reform is a Deputy Minister in the Interior Ministry — she's not likely to be involved in the bailout negotiations anyway. And as others have said, having lower levels of petty corruption makes bailing out Ukraine a more appealing prospect.
HGW XX/7
Perhaps he is hard at work trying to solve those problems, but merely hasn't deigned to share his plans with you personally? 
Well then he's either very keen on keeping the results of his toil hidden, for some reason, from the good people of Ukraine, or not very competent in solving that problem.
He certainly can do both. But Runet Ukrainians are still feeling that he's trying to basically stage a big show with his police reform in order to distract them from the sorry state of Ukraine's economy.
edited 5th Jul '15 3:56:52 PM by KnitTie
You do realise that Achae was quoting you when you were asked in the Russia thread about all the wonderful thing that Putin has been doing that none of us could see or observe, right?
Of course. The thing is, unlike successors, whom you can groom in complete secrecy until it's time for them to reveal themselves, the economy of an entire country is not something that you can keep hidden, and moreover, definitely not something that you want to conceal your successes in improving.
Or maybe I am taking Achaemenid's post too seriously and that tongue emoticon is an equivalent of Humor Mode.
That emote is commonly used for that, but I think that his post was at least partially serious.
Same argument, then: grooming successors and improving economies are on completely different levels of conspicuousness.
edited 5th Jul '15 4:40:34 PM by KnitTie
Imperial knight
2000 new policemen in Kiev against petty crimes and corruption won't make a real difference in Ukraine.
Also,...
what happens if they don't get paid because their state is broke? What will the thousands former policemen do?
Lazy and pathetic.
The law in the night
It is like you guys are cheering for Ukraine to fail.
It isn't a silver bullet to fix all Ukrainian woes, it is one of several.
Sure, ending police corruption isn't going to end all corruption problems but it is a significant step, it shows that the system is changing where the citizens can see it and opens up room for political reforms tackling corruption.
And yes, those kind of reforms make investors and lenders more comfortable to invest because it is a sign the country is moving towards the right direction.
It isn't the biggest thing ever, but this reform isn't to be scoffed at as something minor with no relevance.
Inter arma enim silent leges
But if Ukraine fails it'll make everyone think twice before daring to oppose Russia.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Imperial knight
Change does not equal success. First, the new police force has to prove that it is substantially better than its predecessor. After that, you can talk about it being a move towards the right direction.
Lazy and pathetic.
We are simply being sceptical about Ukraine's ability to actually succeed in implementing its reforms. The current government simply hasn't shown itself to be competent in that regard; for example, the newly-appointed anti-corruption committee is yet to begin functioning and it's already mired in corruption charges. Not a good showing right there.
edited 6th Jul '15 2:14:04 PM by KnitTie
Imperial knight
Ukrainian arms exports in 2014 (small arms to North America, tanks and artillery to Africa, etc.)
Compared to 2013, it is considerable decrease.
I can't read any of that. Who'd they sell small arms to?
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
V
Mostly to Canada and the USA (~10,000 each). Probably then (mostly) going to private buyers.
Imperial knight
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
I feel like exporting weapons isn't something Ukraine should be doing now. They kinda need them.
Oh really when?
Imperial knight
Hard currency is something Ukraine needs even more.
Lazy and pathetic.
Of all the things they are short on I doubt Assault Rifles is one of them.
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Soviet-era arms stockpiles FTW.
edited 8th Jul '15 11:30:24 AM by KnitTie
http://time.com/3893066/chechens-ukraine-war/
Not sure if it works, but I got an article on Chechens coming to fight alongside Ukraine. These guys are nationalists BTW.
Sorry to disappoint, but Dudayev's battalion has been a thing for at least a year by now. But the article itself is quite good.
edited 9th Jul '15 4:24:11 AM by KnitTie
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
