Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
A smattering of Chechens and Ossetians that claim to have participated in the Chechen wars serve in its ranks, but otherwise, it and the Chechen Spetznaz unit of the same name are unrelated.
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
A Dutch investigative journalist is claiming that the Russian government or secret services are trying to impede the MH17 investigation. Meanwhile, a good deal of the comments blame the US instead.
Shameful Display
If the Sun blew up people would find a way to blame the US.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
HGW XX/7
Reminds of the classic jokes about Afrikaaners:
That's a good one!
edited 15th Apr '15 10:21:51 AM by KnitTie
Doublepost for breaking news: former Party of Regions MP has been murdered in Kyiv. That's the fourth Party of Regions member that has died recently under suspicious circumstances.
edited 15th Apr '15 2:31:00 PM by KnitTie
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Well, at least the rebels know it was a disaster.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
HGW XX/7
What I'd like to know is who thought routing air traffic over a warzone was a good idea in the first place?
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Especially one that's supposed to be packed with untrained militiamen with itchy trigger fingers and no training in aircraft recognition (as evidenced by the claims made that they'd downed some manner of Ukrainian Air Force transport plane before it came to light that yes, they'd just swatted a civilian airliner out of the sky).
"Yup. That tasted purple."
The law in the night
& Apparently whatever European air traffic organization is responsible didn't get any memos about not flying above warzones, but officially it is a policing action, not a war or conflict.
Weirdly that same air corridor was being used for a while without incident, until the MH 17 got shot down and it was believed the separatists didn't have access to functional high altitude SAM systems like the Buk.
Inter arma enim silent leges
So if it's not officially a war, it's okay for people to fly there, regardless of anything else?
The law in the night
I guess so, ain't bureaucracy a bitch?
I'd call that negligence. Especially since the folks in Kyiv could've very easily closed that part of their airspace off.
The law in the night
As I mentioned no one knew they had a system able to shoot that high.
Most of the Kiev losses were to MANPA Ds with low altitude jets like the Su-25 and troop carriers flying low and making the landing run.
This whole war is a series of mistakes stacked on the top of each other.
Inter arma enim silent leges
No comment about the suspicious deaths of the (not even really) "pro-Russian" people?
If our TV is to be believed, there is a night of long knives planned, with various people in disagreement with Kevin receiving threats that they have 24 hours to leave the country. That, I suspect, is an exaggeration
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
What isn't an exaggeration is that about eight "opposition activists" have died in Ukraine under suspicious circumstances in the last three months.
edited 17th Apr '15 12:16:28 PM by KnitTie
It's certainly suspicious, I'm not yet convinced of it being a deliberate planned thing though. I suspect that it's either certain groups hitting targets of opportunity or people with unrelated grudges doing it because they believe (likely rightly) that any investigation will be minimal.
Nationalists?
The law in the night
It is a safe bet.
I'll be writing whatever information I've gathered about the murders as soon as I can, sorry for not reporting it earlier, it's been a hectic week.
@Knit - 8? 5 on my latest count, who did I miss?
@Beholderess - where were all you good people when pro-Ukrainians got killed by bomb attacks in Kharkiv/Odessa/Kyiv? Sorry for the curtness.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32361718
A bunch of nationalists have claimed responsibility for the recent spat of assassinations. I'm not sure if this sounds like hot air or not...
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
@Emuran
That was in international news as a bad thing. Which it is. I didn't feel one needed to add much to it.
The "pro-Russian" (which they aren't even) people get killed and it is either not in the news or various justifications/qualifications/"it's just private people settling their grudges " is invoked. Or even people blaming Russia for that (no, really).
Not saying that Russian tv is much better with its hysteria, but can we have consistent standards?
edited 17th Apr '15 7:58:43 PM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
The link above kinda does not match your assertions. The UN wrote about it. There are tons of other links if you google it. And yes, most of the articles say it's bad. So where's the double standard?
And the "personal grudge"/"killed by Russia" is not that widespread an opinion, whether here or in the West.
edited 17th Apr '15 9:17:51 PM by Emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?