War in Ukraine

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28919309

You think the rebels might use them as hostages?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28917308

I love that they gave the narrator a British accent to seem professional, still Russia dose tell a lot of lies, but I don't think most people believe it.

edited 24th Aug '14 3:34:57 PM by JackOLantern1337

"Ukraine Today"? Really?

The BBC is the British Broadcasting Corporation — what other accents would they be using?^note  A few, if you look around closely enough. No American, though. Thank God!

edited 24th Aug '14 3:57:36 PM by Greenmantle

*resists urge to go on a rant about how there's no monolithic overarching "British" accent*

Sorry

[up Edit: ] I should have said BBC newsman accent, is that even a thing, it's just something I've noticed.

I meant the narrator for Ukraine Today

edited 24th Aug '14 4:14:25 PM by JackOLantern1337

The technical term for that is Received Pronunciation, or RP. Or "BBC English" as it's colloquially known, since it's all you'll ever hear on Radio 4 unless there's an episode of The Archers on.

edited 24th Aug '14 4:40:19 PM by Deadbeatloser22

Desi people refer to it as the Queen's English.

Anyway, so how does one do a march with ships?

Russia is sending a new convey into Ukraine. http://rt.com/news/182556-ukraine-russia-lavrov-/

Anyone heard what's happening in Mariupol? There's unsubstantiated rumours about the rebels overrunning the ATO lines.

edit: Attack apparently confirmed. The deputy commander of Azov says they're are in danger of being overrun at Novoazovsk. https://www.facebook.com/igor.mosijcuk/posts/688884234521680

edited 25th Aug '14 1:47:30 AM by sayting

Mariupol info is a fake.

Good to hear . Any idea what the Azov guys are talking about then?

edited 25th Aug '14 2:20:03 AM by sayting

Are the T-84s being used in the counteroffensive right now?

No, but there was video of Rebels using T-72s in Illovaysks. I'll try to find the video.

If they are T-72s it would explain the Russians accusing the Hungarians of giving that model tank to the Ukrainian gov. Muddying the waters about where the rebels got their tanks from.

Edit: Here is the vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTFCtHaTZi4. Looks more like a T-72 then a T-64.

edited 25th Aug '14 2:44:37 AM by sayting

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28924945

There's this

Russia announce their intention of sending another humanitarian convoy. The last convoy was alleged to have stolen machinery from Ukrainian plants and brought it to Russia - that's why it was half-empty. Impossible to confirm, though.

Lavrov says he didn't see anything humiliating in yesterday's parade and beating up of PO Ws.

Still no clear information on Novoazovsk and Mariupol. Only sources we have so far are Lyashko and Semenchenko.

The stealing equipment story doesn't really make sense. Why bother taking it in the highly visible white Russian military trucks when they can just have brought over any night in an unmarked civilian vehicle.

The whole goal of the exercise seems to be to give Russia a foot in door and allow them to supply the rebel regions openly. If they were going to cart stuff out it would be after their convoys became routine not when the world's media are watching.

edited 25th Aug '14 2:54:24 AM by sayting

New map from the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine. https://twitter.com/NSDC_ua/status/503851545306611712/photo/1

Map from rebel source for contrast. http://kot-ivanov.livejournal.com/2077.html

Also have a map independent source. However the author will wait for details to confirmed before editing so it is slower to update then the partisan ones. https://twitter.com/FPWatcher/status/503770246000676864/photo/1

Edit: Kiev confirms armoured column attack on the coast near Mariupol. Russian rebels seem to have also surrounded a large grouping of Ukrainian troops on the southern front either through an advance along the border or a new column crossing over from Russia. Seems to be smaller offensives in the northern conflict zone as well however there there is even less information about that. However, shelling has been seen near Kramatorsk so it seems like a counter-attack on all and more fronts by pro-Russians.

edited 25th Aug '14 5:23:39 AM by sayting

He should be embarrassed because he is backing these idiots.

edited 25th Aug '14 4:17:41 AM by JackOLantern1337

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28924945

Well this is certainly wonderful (sarcasm mode)

@ sayting

But why? I mean, in a counteroffensive as big as this, don't you need to devote all available forces for the operation?

Novoazovsk is under the control of Ukrainian forces. It's a huge question - did that invasion convoy actually exist.

The Ukrainian militia say they destroyed the column and captured Russian soldiers. No proof so far.

Two minutes ago, Poroshenko dissolved the Verkhovna Rada.

The new Rada will be elected on the 26th of October.

edited 25th Aug '14 11:44:47 AM by emuran

This is a stupid question, but who or what functions as Ukraine's legislative body now that the Rada is disbanded?

The Rada will officially still function until the elections.

Russian liberal media release photos of the tombs of two soldiers of the Pskov division that died on the 19-20 August, allegedly in Ukraine. Army command says they died in accidents during training, and flat out refuses to acknowledge some of the deaths (these are not the only ones).

Anyone want a Strelkov or "We're All Berkut" figurine?

edited 25th Aug '14 1:22:05 PM by emuran

Hungarian PM said a few days ago that sanctioning Russia due to the events in Ukraine is "against the country's interests" and that he's going to try and convince other European countries as well.

Double-dealing by giving those tanks to Ukraine would be incredibly stupid, even for him: after recently requesting and receiving Russian monetary aid for expanding Hungary's sole nuclear power plant, he's not in any position to turn against Russia and he knows it, no matter how much the common folk don't like news/rumors of the Ukrainian army conscripting ethnic Hungarians into the war.

edited 25th Aug '14 3:24:59 PM by amitakartok

You know I haven't seen a single ukrainian t-80 or t-84 this entire time on any media. Only T-64s and a few T-55s.

T-80s are very expensive to maintain and there's a high demand for them on the black market. Its likely the vast majority were either scrapped, cannibalised or sold off by the government or corrupt officers prior to the war.

The Hungarian government denied it but it does give russia cover to send t-72s(which they have plenty of in storage) rather then the older and more complicated t-64s.

I don't trust the russian troops are the rebels stories. If they are there it would be as officers and advisors not making up numbers. Training accidents are common in Western militaries yet alone Eastern ones. If Russian sends the VDV in force it will be very clear.

edited 25th Aug '14 6:18:15 PM by sayting

The offensive isn't as surprising as it may seem. The rebels have contrasted their defence in a limited area and the Ukrainian army has suffered what are likely heavy defeats. The Southern cauldron lost them far more regulars and equipment then they are admitting and the attempt to split the DPR and LPR ended in failure.

One thing that it is clear that the rebels are getting elsewhere is artillery. Before the capture of Slavyansk it was one area where Ukraine held a decisive advantage. However, the influx of grad and tubed artillery allowed the rebels to cripple the troops in the southern cauldron with little loss to themselves. At the same time the Ukrainian air force has been effectively destroyed as a fighting force.

The lack of an advantage in the air and with artillery means the rebels can launch offensives without certainty of defeat. At the same time the Ukrainians seem to have little reserve manpower in the combat zone. However, the attack on Mariupol seems to more of a spoiling attack to keep reinforcements away from the far more worrying encirclement in Illovaysk.