Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
This is rather poignant...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/21/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-moscow-embassy/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
*presses non-existent like button*
A procrastination in of itself
X3
If I could work out how to add an image to my post I would find an actual like button for and I to press.
edited 23rd Jul '14 6:11:38 AM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The "shoot them if they try to enter", if true (and that's ublikely), is more akin to infamous "No step back" order issued by Stalin in WWII.
And, again if true, it seems to be working, as today rebels shot down two Su-25s, burned several tanks (NSFW photos of said tanks and their dead crew are already floating in the internet) and are trying to retake Lysychansk (rebels report that they already retook it, Ukrainian sources changed from "Lysychansk liberated" to "heavy fighting").
After all, they seem to be inflicting heavy damage - and that may be the point from Putin's plan, not to capture anything (Donbass is not really needed by Russia), but to weaken Ukraine and prevent it from becoming powerful US or NATO ally.
Given that Ukraine has to do third mobilization of reserves alerady, it seems Ukrainian army is indeed exhausted, and Donbass infrastructure is heavily damaged by Ukrainian army shelling (last weeks it became totally indscriminate).
Hooooly shit... Reuters says that a separatist commander is accusing Russia of shooting down the plane then taking the launcher back to Russia to remove evidence! Biting the hand that feeds you, much?
The Ukraine ministry of interior is also saying that the Russian defense minister is directly overseeing both separatist combat operations and weapon shipments for them. Polish border guard has also arrested a shipment of 551 helmets and 15 bulletproof vests meant for the loyalists because the driver didn't have legal paperwork; the cargo was bought and sent by Polish civil groups. I think this pretty much explains Polish popular opinion about the conflict...
edited 23rd Jul '14 11:00:54 AM by amitakartok
Radical Moderate
Don't forget that the rebel commander 1) was fired from the position of the Donetsk People's Republic security minister a few days ago, and that 2) he is Ukrainian, while other rebel leaders are Russian. In short, there could be a lot of internal grudges being settled here.
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
You can pretty much rely on Poland to oppose anything Russia does.
I mean, they kind of put the whole "WW 2" thing behind them regarding their relations with modern Germany, but Russia? Oh boy. They'll probably still be hating Russia in a hundred years for stuff that happened back in the Napoleonic wars or even before.
It's kinda Europe's own Japan-vs-Korea, and for much the same reasons.
Reality is for those who lack imagination.
Never Trust
They have substantially more recent reasons for distrusting Russia than the Napoleonic Wars. Also Germany shows no sign of being a current threat to it's neighbors. Putin's Russia on the other hand...
edited 23rd Jul '14 3:29:40 PM by tricksterson
Trump delenda est
Beware the Crazy Man.
Outside of the former Soviet Union, not really. And the Greeks would probably disagree about Germany.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
A procrastination in of itself
Hey if we're counting Germans threatening actions to Greece's economy than we should count Russia's threatening actions to the entire of Europe (turning off the gas).
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Beware the Crazy Man.
I was joking, y'know.
Besides, Europe was never the intended target of those gas tussles. Thats why they're building a pipeline directly to Germany after all.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
FATAL Survivor
So if those separatists being shot at the Russia border is true—still gonna wait on sources, though; my Google-fu is failing me thus far—then that's pretty interesting in regards to Putin's motivations. It seems more and more that he doesn't necessarily hate the west as much as he loves trolling them. Anything to piss off the Americans and Europeans. So much so that when something serious as MH 17 happens that it's unacceptable to everyone, even their second highest trading foreign partner in the Dutch, that he's all, "Not cool, bro. This is not ok, ok, bro? No. Get your shit and go, you gotta get the fuck out, bro. And if I see your ass back here you're getting shot, ok, bro? No hard feelings, da?"
Something like that.
"That wizard came from the moon!"
Does he really talk like the tracksuit mafia from the Hawkeye solo though?
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
FATAL Survivor
One can hope. Also ![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
for you for recognizing the reference.
edited 23rd Jul '14 5:10:43 PM by Cyran
"That wizard came from the moon!"
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Thanks to Razak on overseeing the transfer of the black boxes to Britain and getting the bodies off Ukraine, there's some surge to his popularity and to UMNO.
During Razak's conversation with the separatists, they highly regarded him as a major non-party state between the West and Russia. It's because of his efforts in securing peace in Mindanao.
edited 24th Jul '14 5:13:40 AM by Ominae
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Face-Puncher
International police are also preparing to enter Ukraine and secure the crash site and the bodies, including 50 Australian federal police. The wisest thing for the separatists to do is to back off and let them do their jobs.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Previously, the Malaysian SMART team was given access and they worked back home to get DNA from families of the victims.
Any word on RMP involvement?
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Armed thugs in Donetsk have seized a CNN freelancer.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/24/world/europe/ukraine-cnn-fixer-abducted/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Well done, guys. That's also going to look really classy. Well, unless you work really hard to avert further stupidity. -_-
So, that's three in total, now, this week... right?
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Not sure if it's been posted, but a rebel commander confirmed that the rebels have or had a Buk.
So... yeah, Hanlon's Razor?
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
I've heard of that yesterday. One theory passed on was that the rebels are having internal conflicts and blaming each other thusly.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Yatsenyuk and the whole Government have just resigned. The leading coalition has collapsed - both UDAR and Svoboda have left it. Also, the Communist fraction has been dissolved, and will probably be completely banned.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Did you know this section has a character limit?
Rebel or Official Government?
They do have medals for almost, and they're called silver!
Official.
edited 23rd Jul '14 5:33:04 AM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei