All Asian Maritime Disputes

...and South Korea announces expanded air defence zone — Partially overlapping with China's zone.

If you don't mind, I'll post the link to the map in your article:

A map that shows the conflict between the ADIZ's and the EEZ's◊.

In terms of ADIZ, since South Korea is now in direct conflict with China's space, will there be a triple conflict or (through US coordination) a South Korea and Japan cooperation?

I know that South Korea and Japan are not fond of each other, but could the US lead them to a basic understanding and cooperation?

Keep in mind that the map has the Chinese Defence Ministry as one of its sources. If someone could provide a map that has the Japanese equivalent as one of its sources, that would be great to see the differences.

edited 8th Dec '13 7:30:08 AM by Quag15

According to that map, SK and Japan are not directly overlapping. In fact, SK's zone runs right up against Japan's. So I'm taking that as an indicator that they're already coordinating and cooperating to some extent.

I think that while SK and Japan may not like each other, they have a common interest in not seeing a shitfight break out over the islands, and they're not going to start a dance-off with each other. Especially not when there's a hungry dragon across the sea.

edited 8th Dec '13 7:48:32 AM by Ramidel

South Korea/Japan have fewer current issues than either of them vs China. Theres a rock between them in dispute, thats it, plus the various Japanese atrocities and general attitude towards WW 2 that ruffles SK's feathers.

There are issues with Koreans in Japan, and of course WW II.

But besides that, K-Pop groups sing Japanese songs and Japanese versions of Korean songs are sometimes more popular than the originals in South Korea. lol

edited 8th Dec '13 6:15:23 PM by entropy13

yea, theres issues but for the most part they get along.

Kinda like the exact opposite of the middle east where they have one or two pieces of common ground, but all want to kill each other otherwise.

Sharing cultural stuff is always good, helps build bonds between countries.

Luckily it's not the only thing, other wise we'd probably have invaded and put canada under martial law for beiber...

edited 8th Dec '13 6:52:45 PM by joesolo

China’s ADIZ and the Japan-US response.

How to Prevent Accidental Conflict in the East China Sea. From this article:

Also, China Is Ok with South Korea's New ADIZ.

China never fought a bitter war against South Korea. China's arrowheads are aimed pretty much mostly at Japan since it's much easier to rile public sentiments up against them than almost anyone else.

edited 9th Dec '13 8:35:59 PM by nightwyrm_zero

Technically you're right, because China merely allowed hundreds of thousands of Chinese "volunteers" to cross the river and attack the So Kor/US/UN forces, i.e. they didn't "fight a war" against South Korea.

As the British said at the time: 'It is a very well-dressed "volunteer" who turns up wearing a fighter plane.'

Thing is though, Korea has never invaded China and Korean soldiers had not pillaged and raped and murdered anyone in a Chinese city. The PRC fought ROK in the Korean War, true, but to most Chinese minds that's just something that happened far away, unlike what happened in Nanking, for example, so it is easier to rile hatred in the Chinese people to Japan.

And I am wondering if all this posturing was made for the Chinese people, in the "look at your government! See its power!" way rather than for other countries. Because if you'd ask me when I was young I would not have believed that the PRC would pull something like this: it has always been a civilian movement (in Hong Kong anyway) to get the islands back. There's even a privately owned ship named "Protect Diaoyu" and those people have travelled to the Diaoyu Islands and the confrontation between the Japanese ships and them had somebody died.

And before people say Communist influence in Hong Kong that was back before the handover when HK was still a British colony.

edited 10th Dec '13 1:32:13 AM by IraTheSquire

When I was in Hong Kong, I happen to chance upon what I would call a civil society group (this is in the ferry terminal, in Kowloon already, across from HK island), distributing leaflets, their newspaper, and DV Ds featuring atrocities of the Chinese Communist Party through the years. Essentially their message is this: The Japanese did atrocious things to China during the war, but the CCP aren't saints either, or even just 'flawed humans' because their exploitation of their countrymen is systematic AND systemic, and their treatment of the non-Chinese are even worse.

edited 10th Dec '13 2:15:39 AM by entropy13

As I said, what I described was before the handover. After the handover the people in HK were... far less patriotic.

Sounds like they were trying to undo all those years of reminding people what happened in WWII.

Also irrelevant to the point I was making: it is far easier to rally the Chinese people against Japan than South Korea. PRC is horrible, hence why it distracts its people away from that fact with wealth and stunts like with the Diaoyu Islands.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:56:42 AM by IraTheSquire

Then why do you think the people can be distracted at all? Regularly, Chinese netizens have lots to say about their own government, to the point that we can never have enough to deliver. Part of the reason why the Fishing Islands cause is justified, is not only due to historical hate, but also due to Japan's shady nature and shady alliance with USA. At first, back in 2008, it was pretty clear assumed that if Japan were to hog the islands, USA would build another radome ASAP.

It was never implied that USA had given that thought up. It's just the first step with Abe has gotten to a very loud start. On top of USA going to deffo-install a radome, there's also the fact that before China 'unilaterally' declaring the ADIZ, Abe 'unilaterally' stepped on one of the Islands first. No self respecting president would do that, even if it's not to pick a fight.

Abe is one of the good things to 'come out from Japan' recently. If things push through, our Coast Guard would have a few more modern patrol boats. Every little bit helps, you see.

And our relationship with Japan is definitely friendlier than with China. It's as if it was China that invaded us in Dec. 8, 1941, raped, pillaged, killed civilians (and even massacred missionaries inside a chapel), took a "last stand" in defending Manila even though they have no hope of victory.

Probably because the Chinese sees us as mere 'servants' rather than 'neighbors'.

edited 10th Dec '13 2:23:05 PM by entropy13

Though technically, if I remembered it right, it was the KMT who is governing ROC now who allied with the US, not the CCP that is ruling the mainland China.

Yup.

Or maybe because it's been nearly 70 years since those things happened, Japan has been a stable and peaceful democracy for most of that time and the people responsible for those acts are all dead or so old they can barely remember their own names?

I wouldn't say that. My grand-uncle can still give me a rather vivid account of his experience during Japanese rule in Hong Kong.

Though funnily enough he harboured much less antagonism towards the Japanese than my mum who wasn't even born during that time. His accounts of how the remaining Japanese getting bashed by the Chinese the days after the war is quite insightful.

Combine this with the fact that there were Japanese WWII veterans joining in the 75th anniversary of the Nanjing massacre I have a feeling that quite a lot of those who experienced it first hand had already forgiven each other.

Aaaand of course it's NOT just about Nanking. National needs aside, if notwithstanding, there's the issue of Japan yet to apologize as a state for doing what it did in WWII, as so far, the apologies are personal. Right now the 'state' of Japan is in a stance of encroachment. This in spite of simultaneous frictions against Russia and S Korea.

I would like to ask everyone to refrain from talking about stuff regarding World War II, Nanking/Nanjing and national perspectives of other nations and its peoples, as I pointed out in the OP. Not only is it going off-topic, but it could potentially escalate into a Flame War that could get this thread locked.

While this is article is more about Japan's defense program as a whole, this is the bit that's worth highlighting in regards to this thread:

edited 11th Dec '13 2:43:55 PM by Quag15

Taiwan's relationship with our country is much more weird. They want to act like their mainland counterparts with the disputes, but the fact is most of their cheap labor also comes from us (hence the "they are just our servants" attitude), and we're one of the few countries with an official representative with them (albeit dubbed as a 'cultural office' rather than a consulate).

I mean come on, there's a Chiang Kai-Shek school here FFS, not Mao Zedong or Deng Xiaopin School. The Kuomintang of today is slightly different from the Kuomintang of the past.

There was an uproar when a Taiwanese fisherman was killed when their boat SPED UP TO FLEE our Coast Guard, so our CG fired warning shots on the ship. Using the coordinates provided by Taiwanese authorities, the 'encounter' happened within 80 nautical miles of the province of Batanes. So unless they're also claiming one of our provinces now...

edited 11th Dec '13 2:23:51 PM by entropy13

Please, stop. This is getting nowhere. At least my post above talked about simultaneous clash of water territories.

edited 11th Dec '13 2:42:39 PM by Culminus

Apologies, I never knew that talking about a Taiwanese fishing boat claiming to be in "Taiwanese waters" but only being 80 nautical miles from one of our provinces (and 200 nautical miles from Taiwanese territory) is not relevant to the topic.