All Asian Maritime Disputes

Invasion according to whom or what?

Folks in Chinese soil didn't call them the 'fishing islands' for no reason. It's a hand-down name that was older than Senkaku. You can say Japan and China have been mutually invading each other and get away with it.

And, like, anybody cares what the Ainu called them.

Doesn't the Ainu live in the northern islands of Japan?

No, I'm not trying to shift the blame. I'm just pointing out that calling them the Republic of Japan is factually incorrect.

Yep. Hokkaido and the Kuril islands (though the Emishi who lived in parts of Honshu back in the Heian Era and earlier may have been the same people, or at least closely related to the modern Ainu).

Regarding the islands historically being claimed as a tribute state to China, it wasn't unheard of for smaller powers to be tributary states of more than one nation. The Kingdom of Ryukyu, back when it was an independent entity was tributary to both the Chinese Imperial Court and the Satsuma clan of daimyo in Japan.

Very well, I'll holler the mod to change the title and I'll alter the original post a little bit.

edited 1st Dec '13 2:12:35 PM by Quag15

Done.

Diayou means 'fishing'. I see, so that's why the Chinese wants those islands.

Oh, it's the 'rumoured' oil deposits underneath? Just like in Spratlys? lol

Thanks.

The Diplomat does an analysis round-up of the East China Sea ADIZ.

Why China's Air Defense Identification Zone Is Terrible For Cross-Strait Relations.

I simply cannot agree about the latter. Taiwan has much to benefit if China claims those islands legally once and for all. Sovereignity issues aside, both basically share the same territories.

Um. I think you'll not find Taiwan agreeing with that sentiment over much, mate.

China's ADIZ: Taiwan's Dilemma

South Korea to Expand Its ADIZ.

From the article:

"...Taiwan’s President Ma Ying-jeou has his own strategy for resolving the dispute: the East China Sea Peace Initiative. The idea calls for countries to shelve the territorial disputes, exercise self-restraint, and work together to jointly develop maritime resources. These ideas were embodied in the fishing agreement Taiwan and Japan signed in April 2013. While both Taiwan and Japan reserved their territorial claims, the agreement formally lays down the right of Taiwanese fishermen to access the area.

In response, PRC Ministry of Foreign Affairs Spokesman Hong Lei announced that China was “extremely concerned” about the agreement, and called on Japan to “earnestly abide by its promises on the Taiwan issue.” In other words, China does not recognize the right of the Taiwan government to discuss the territorial issue with Japan. Once again, the territorial dispute becomes an issue of Taiwan’s sovereignty or lack thereof."

In other words, mainland China may or may not resolve it's dispute with Japan, but seems reluctant to engage Taiwan, probably because they dont want to imply a recognition of their sovereignty. I expect China is playing the long game here, and nothing terribly serious is going to happen right now. On the other hand, I expect this problem isnt going away.

Considering the length of China's history, playing the long game is what they're good at^note  Probably one of the best players of that game in the world. . They'll win their claims if they outlast the competition.

So they're going to 'outlast the competition' by making most of the world the competition?

Yup.

Consider the Chinese relationship with Taiwan. They've more-or-less established that whenever Taiwan wants to come back, or whenever America becomes unable to defend them, they can become Taipei SAR, and in the meantime they've forced Taiwan to accept a level of Chinese identity that keeps reunion a perpetual possibility in a game where China only has to win once.

They're okay if it takes another hundred years before they reannex Taiwan, because they know that it'll happen eventually.

China can play the same game with the islands; maintain the ability to annex whenever America weakens, and in the meantime keep their claim from slipping.

Well, I agree that mainland China will eventually 'annex' Taiwan.

By that time, the Communist Party of China has been CRUSHED anyway so the real Chinese government gets to return to the mainland.

Well, either that or the CCP finally gets its head out of its ass and reformed democratically in the same way as Taiwan did.

Or, the CCP will remain strong as China grows richer and more powerful, and Taiwan will eventually be bribed and coerced into accepting reunion, maintaining much of their autonomy as an SAR but still not joining a democratic China.

Democracy is not necessarily the destiny of all humanity.

edited 2nd Dec '13 6:57:23 PM by Ramidel

Except China won't grow richer because you said they're going to make the rest of the world the 'competition' and therefore they will be unable to sustain they're current growth. Unless they exponentially increase their labor population in the long-term...which they can only do with enough resources to sustain that population...which their 'competition' have.

...huh?

China being the world's competition doesn't mean they won't be trading with and cutting deals with them economically; expanding their control over resources in places like Africa while selling goods to places like America. Even while they trade, though, they'll be constantly grabbing power where they get the chance.

This isn't the same thing as the Cold War.

NHK confirms that American airlines will have to confirm their identification in Chinese ADIZ territory. I know Japanese airlines won't do it, but I don't know if others will follow either side.

Time for US and China to Establish Maritime Rules of the Road.

What do you mean this isn't the same thing as the Cold War?

Arguably it's even worse, because the US for example, didn't send American workers along with their investment in 'third world countries' during the Cold War.

Chinese lumber company in Papua New Guinea = most of the workers are Chinese Chinese oil company in Nigeria = most of the workers are Chinese

It's only in a few exceptions (like the Australian mining industry) that they weren't able to get things reach that extent.

That's not what I'd call "trade", that's called "buying off the government to ignore it and then exploiting the natural resources in that country, and having the labor force come from your own, and not from the country where those resources are".

I fail to see how this somehow means that China won't continue to grow its economy while "competing" with the rest of the world.

South Korea Conducts Military Drill in China’s ADIZ.