The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

No, it doesn't state it anywhere, but they do control when/how you reincarnate. So, I don't see it as too much of a stretch. All they have to do is just choose not to reincarnate you, since you are currently doing your job.

So, someone in Yuyuko's position will not be able to reincarnate, unless they want to. I don't see the Yamas stopping someone from reincarnating even if they have a job. They will just look for someone else.

In Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, Yuyuko vs Iku dialogue:

It may be possible for Yuyuko to ascend if she chooses to. There may be a way to go get by the seal.

As for the ritual itself, I think it is more of a petition.

A bit off-topic but I remember there was that one Yukari vs Ran doujin where Yukari ended up knowing pretty much everyone from Kaguya to the Prismrivers to Yuyuko just by existing so long and hanging around and she finally used all her connections to stop the greatest threat Gensokyo had ever known! Remilia for some reason. Okay, very off-topic.

I still think Yuyuko died by poison. I don't have strong evidence but she seems to have a fondness for it, in that two times is a pattern. The typical doujin depiction is that she done shanked herself. In the neck usually, to prevent Wesley's from talking about perfect breasts, no doubt.

Anyway, so, yeah. I got the image of Yuyuko mixing poison into some food and having a final meal alone under the tree.

edited 2nd Nov '13 5:49:16 PM by Bocaj

If not poison, than probably just 'suicide by tree'. She's like "Eh, dad died under that tree, and now its killed people just like I kill people. Guess I'll go petition it to help me with my problem."

Then the tree just noms on her. Well, however it kills people. I'm still a fan of the 'so beautiful they can't bear to look away long enough to eat or drink or anything' idea though.

Also, I wonder why its so important the seal be intact... I mean... the tree is in the Netherworld, no? So... it's relatively 'safe' there, I'd think. Unless the seal is what's keeping it there? Which means... I guess it'd go back to Japan if the seal were broken? That'd be interesting...

Secretly, its an Ent and can walk.

Death by Tree... Makes her afternoon naps under the Saigyou Ayakashi even more relevant. And ironic.

If she did die by using a knife, I imagine that she would have a permanent scar at wherever she stabbed herself. Then again, she's a ghost. Scars normally shouldn't carry over to a life after death.

Whatever, I prefer death by tree or poison over knifing. Unless it was instant, her death would have been slow and agonizing...^note Then again, poison and tree could also be slow and agonizing, especially the poison.

Which brings up another method of her death: Using her power on herself. She can kill people just by thinking about it. Once she realized this dangerous effect, she thought that it could work on her, too. And it did.

"Huh, I wonder if this thing works on myself."

"Turns out it does."

That would be a horrible way to go. Its like opps.

I don't imagine Yuyuko death beamu actually hurts. There's no injury. She just crooks a finger and beckons your soul and it goes well, alright and goes gallivanting off out of your mortal coil.

Comparatively, its probably not a bad way to go.

They met under the cherry blossoms, the meeting that would change their lives

As I view it - Yuyuko is Yukari's first and truest friend. In my head canon, Yukari used to be quite similar to Yuuka. Not in her genocidal tendencies, but in her disconnected, looking down upon manner. The kind of youkai who think themselves so great they are above all creation. So was Yukari, not caring about a thing but her own amusement, meddling with life as if the world had nothing to do with her. Her relationship with Yuyuko probably started in a similar fashion; an interesting-looking human that would redeem her boredom for a while.

I picture Yuyuko as being very different from how she is now; younger, shyer. A very sad and lonely child, craving for company. Having the suspicion she may be the cause of the death surrounding her, she distanced herself from any interaction with others. Suddenly being approached by a youkai in times were humans were hunted as food by youkai was very unexpected. She probably assumed Yukari was just toying with her - and in a sense she was right. Yukari, being as sharp as she is, probably realized Yuyuko's power, which only served to intensify her curiosity. Spending her time with the human girl, listening to her tales of day-to-day life and thoughts of the future; having someone to pour their heart in front of you was completely new to Yukari. She found herself truly being interested in the girl.

That's why, even when Yuyuko's powers grow stronger, she pretended not to notice. She didn't want her fun days with the young human to end. But Yuyuko noticed. Her aura of death grew ever stronger, her mere presence causing plants to wither and birds to fall dead in their flight. She quickly realized that eventually even a youkai as strong as Yukari would succumb to her powers. Not wanting to lose the one person who stayed by her side, she understood. She would bring no more death nor sorrow to the world.

Her life was short and painful, but somehow, she found something she wanted to protect.

For someone who never felt genuine affection before, the lose of Yuyuko has been a piercing shock. She hadn't even realized how important Yuyuko had been to her. Wishing the girl no more life of suffering, she begged the Yama to cut her off of the reincarnation cycle. Complying, the Yama had appointed Yuyko as the supervisor of the Netherworld, erasing the memories of her past life.

Eventually Yuyuko and Yukari met and became friends again, but it seems that since then Yukari had detached herself from others. She sleeps most of the time and keeps minimal social interactions. Trying not to get too close and get attached again, the fear of losing someone dear being too big.

Hmm. I do like the idea that Yukari originally met Yuyuko to basically mess with her, but gradually grew to like her as a person and friend, and was involved with making sure she would be removed from the painfulness of life and all that.

I am pretty sure Yuyuko's powers don't work like that. She doesn't just kill the things around her by being there, but rather she was horrified by the fact that she could invite living things to death with just a wave of her hand. The fact that her family had a tree with a similar (though distinct I feel) ability born in part because of her father probably didn't help her condition.

I wonder how she realized that her powers had evolved though? I wouldn't be surprised if she was using her powers to make the spirits of the departed dance or something and accidentally pulled out the soul of a living passerby.

Oh yeah, I forgot the mandatory mention that her father was a stupid, thoughtless inconsiderate poet. And that people are stupid, thoughtless inconsiderate sheep.

It's okay, it's just head canon.

Well, if Akyuu's entry on Yuyuko is any indication, Yuyuko being his daughter is common enough knowledge that Akyuu knows. Then again, Akyuu also knows that Yuyuko's body is buried and sealed under the tree, and not even Yuyuko knows that (or at least, she didn't at the time of PCB)

Of course, the real life person was childless and if we assume the outside world of Touhou is "like reality unless noted", yeah, history completely overlooked her. You'd think him having children would have come up unless he himself didn't pay it any mind.

edited 3rd Nov '13 10:06:45 AM by Otherarrow

"Why is there a small child running around my garden?"
"That's your daughter, sir."
"Huh, did it come with the house?"

It could be a mix case of the two. It is possible that Yuyuko's powers are controllable, but it is easy to invite people to death with it. Kind of like if you just thinking unfortunate things on other people will cause them death. Here is the reference on her powers:

I am assuming she has accidentally used it on someone.

Maybe she started seeing souls and was able to control them or something.

It is also possible that Akyuu knows human Yuyuko from her past life.

Akyuu only remembers things related to the Chronicle, so probably not.

Not really. She states otherwise in Forbidden Scrollery. http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_suzunaan_forbidden_scrollery/v02/c010/11.html

She doesn't go into enough detail for me to use that as a valid source to the contrary. Do remember that the source of Akyuu's memory carry over limitations...was also Akyuu. So it's Akyuu's word versus Akyuu's word.

That, or ZUN screwed up and forgot what he wrote in PMiSS

But I digress. Akyuu is even more off topic than Youmu.

The bit you linked to just says she can remember her past lives, not necessarily what she remembered from them. So it doesn't seem to conflict...

As for Yuyuko escaping from history, it could be a side effect or requirement of her being used as a seal. Its also possible it was just covered up. "Oh, sure I had a daughter. She can manipulate the spirits of the dead! That's totally not shady or anything."

Also possible the father himself didn't know her? That she was just some result of a youthful indiscretion he never even learned about? Which would lend an amusing sort of... I dunno, connection between them, considering the tree ended up claiming both of them. Of course, if she was the mistress of the clan for any length of time, then clearly someone knows of the connection. It just may have been "Oh, he died. find a replacement!" and she's the bastard child who got the job.

edited 3rd Nov '13 8:19:47 PM by Antimatter625

The context of the comment is that Akyuu remembers what Noh theater was before the earliest records of it. Unless you're trying to argue that Noh is a vital part of her Chronicle I think it implies a bit more carried over memories than that.

There's also another scene in FS where Akyuu remembers hiding something in her storage room in a past life.

Huh, I suddenly find myself liking "Ghost Lead."

Selfish whims may be all she has, though. Besides her Netherworld duties, it's not like she has anything else to do. She's got no long-term goals to strive for, no journey to make - her journey's already over, and she's stuck where she is. I think we could view the years since her death as not character development, but distillation, the loss of all the traits associated with her living self.

That, and I'd wager it's because poisoning is hard to convey in a static visual medium. Plus arterial spray lets you make symbolic butterfly-wing pools of blood around her corpse (I warned you).

But never when you're looking at it.

I like, but I'm gonna amend it slightly - Yuyuko was Yukari's second friend. Or perhaps I should phrase it as Yuyuko was her first friend as Yukari.

Egad, Yukari undergoing character development? But it makes sense. She left her first friend behind long ago (in terms of distance on a timeline), and then the second person she got close to was kinda doomed. Fool me once...

Ever been angry, pubescent, or both? That'd be a pretty obvious and horrifying demonstration of what the superpower lottery saddled you with.

The family that dies together... uh...

Good thing the evil tree got dealt with, that'd be a morbidly hilarious family tradition.

That is a ludicrous amount of blood.

Alright, It's time:

Spellcard Storytelling: Yuyuko(IAMP)

Death Sign"Ghastly Dream": Additional Level is Deadly Butterfly"Eternal Sleep in Dreamland". This is Yuyuko's signature move. This spell creates a spiral of deadly buttefiles that swirl around Yuyuko. It is the opposite of Resurrection Butterfly, whereas that spellcard was to be used to resurrect the — I'm going to reduce my credibility and just call it the Evil Tree — this spellcard is highly specified for combat, and killing. Yuyuko is no longer a semi-peaceful conspirator stealing spring, she is an active participant in Gensokyo's incidents and she came prepared.

Nether Sign "Path to Yomotsu-Hirasaka": Additional level is Lost Again "Gensokyo's Rise from Yomi". Yuyuko opens a portal to the land of the dead and lets her spirits roam free. A sign of Yuyuko's strength, but not her authority. She doesn't control any of the spirits she summons so she just summons a bunch to make sure she hits. It's a nice change of pace for Yuyuko. Instead of sending her opponent's straight to Hell, she brings Hell to them. How kind.

Spirit Sign "Ageless Dream": Additional level is Lifespan "Ticket to the Ageless Land". Yuyuko summons ghosts to possess the enemy. This attack requires Yuyuko to go unharmed for possession to be successful. Something of a slow-acting version of Yuyuko's ability. It either slowly harms the enemy or will unleash all of it's power at once, but it does very little if Yuyuko is hurt. Perhaps this is Yuyuko's way of showing just how powerful she really is, without killing her opponent.

Her first three story spell's are pretty much just basic versions of the above, that can all be grazed fairly simply so I'll skip ahead.

Cherry Blossom "Feast of Lingering Regrets": A large fan spreads out in mid-air as Yuyuko floats before it. Large barrages of bullets are fired often, while smaller cherry blossoms bullets are formed before spreading. This spellcard can only be encountered by Yukari,

"The Purple Higan Shines Late": Yuyuko turns monochrome floating in midair. As she floats, butterfly bullets spiral around her and she strikes points on the ground from which power erupts. This spellcard can only be encountered by Yukari. Were these spellcards created specially for Yukari? Yeah, probably. This one in particular seems to comment on her lifespan, for she is still far from Higan... probably, don't really know how old she is, but she probably won't die any time too soon, like she has at least 10 to 20 human generations left, at least. This is a commentary on Yuyuko though, and Yuyuko is dead.

edited 3rd Nov '13 10:41:17 PM by Horselesshorseman

Anyone know where Akyuu states that she couldn't remember things unrelated to the Chronicles? But in either case, it shouldn't matter, because Forbidden Scrollery tells us that Akyuu does remember, even if vaguely.

It isn't that she goes into detail or anything like that. What I am trying to say is that if she could remember Sarugaku, she might be able to remember human Yuyuko. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to imagine that.

The reason why we are discussing Akyuu is because I suggested that she may have known Yuyuko. I wouldn't be too surprised if she does know human Yuyuko.

@"The Purple Higan Shines Late": That's interesting. A spellcard only encounterable by Yukari?

Re: Yuyuko's family:

The Touhou characters' relations to their real counterparts can vary. Miko is the only Gensokyoan who is explicitly spelt out to be the same person as her counterpart. For most other characters, these connections are only alluded to. Some characters, like Yoshika, seem to be only inspired by their historical counterparts, but not one and the same as them.

In the case of Yuyuko's father, her profile only says "there was a great poet in Gensokyo". It also says Yuyuko lived 1000 years ago, when the real Saigyō lived from 1118 to 1190, which is 800-900 years ago - of course, the number 1000 may also be understood as a very rough approximation.

Personally, I think it's best to think of the Saigyouji family as a highly fictionalized version of Saigyō's family, and it's meaningless to discern whether they are the same thing. (I've seen a relevant TVT trope page, but can't remember the name: if a story contains a fictionalized version of A, does the real A still exist in this universe?)

There seemed to be a lot of folklore surrounding Saigyō, unfortunately, I don't think they are easily available on the English internet. Here's what I can find:

Sakura is Saigyō's favorite flower, and a main topic of his poetry. One of Saigyō's most famous poem is:

"Let me die in spring under the blossoming trees, let it be around that full moon of Kisaragi month." (Translation from wikipedia; "full moon of Kisaragi month" refers to the idea that Buddha's birth, enlightenment and death all happened in that month.)

The next step seems to be Zeami's noh play, 西行桜 "Saigyou-zakura" (Saigyō's Sakura Tree), which is about a dialogue between Saigyō and the spirit of an old sakura tree. (According to this article, Saigyō was also the only poet favored by the noh artists.)

The legend of sakura draining from corpses may have developed from there, although I can't find a definite proof for that. In other words, the root of the bloodthirsty sakura tree legend may be none other than Saigyō himself.

According to moto-neta's entry on Resurrection Butterfly, in 撰集抄 Senjuushou, a book claiming to be written by Saigyō (and believed to be so until the modern era), he tried and failed to perform a resurrection spell, by gathering human bones from the wild.

According to Japanese wikipedia (1, 2), prior to becoming a monk, Saigyō was married, and had a son and a daughter, but there was little historical record about the daughter. A writer from his time said when Saigyō left home to become a monk, he sincerely asked his little brother to take care of his daughter. However, in later folklore, especially "Saigyō Monogatari" (Tale of Saigyō), a work widespread in the Edo period, several hundred years later, a whole other set of stories were developed about the daughter:

• When Saigyō was leaving, his four-year old daughter wouldn't let go of him, so he was forced to kick her away.
• They would later meet again. The daughter became a nun following her father's advice.
• The daughter and her mother would train together at Mt. Koyasan.
• She died as a virgin.

Back to Touhou, the mysterious old record refers to Yuyuko as 富士見の娘 "Daughter of Fujimi". Fujimi, meaning "View of Mt. Fuji", is a nickname later people gave to Saigyō. It came from a poem of his about looking at the smoke of Fuji during his training travels. In ukiyoe (again, hundreds of years later), he was often depicted as looking at Mt. Fuji.

Moreover, because both 富士見 and 不死身 "immortality; unkillable" are pronounced "fujimi", the punny minds of Edo era used Saigyō as a synonym of 不死身. (Of course, because of its name, Mt. Fuji itself was first associated with immortality before that, though ZUN would put another spin on it in Mokou's story.)

edited 4th Nov '13 3:05:20 AM by atrican