writing Transphobia

ok, so I have a scene where a Female to Male Transgender person is getting harassed about his Transexuality by a random guy only to have punched in the face by another person listening in on the conversation.

but I realized that I have no idea how to write transphobic dialogue, at least not to the point of blatant douchery worthy of being punched in the face. (the person who punches him already has a short fuse for this sorta thing but still).

anyone have any idea's on how I should write that?

edited 19th Aug '13 9:32:05 AM by Jetyl

Well, if your book is of the right demographic, there are slurs to use, anything offensive to LGBTQ people will work, especially if you call the person feminine things.

Anything implying they are fake, or an "it" will also be really plenty offensive.

If your demographic is not curse appropriate, then "he-she" and stuff like that is also offensive.

edited 19th Aug '13 9:48:23 AM by MrAHR

I know a lot of people who would traditionally go into the trans-phobic category. The fact of the matter is that they just don't get it. Most of them are ignorant about it. The reason that their ignorant is because if they are lucky, they will run across one trans person in their entire lives. If I was writing someone like that, I would make it someone who they knew (perhaps not well) before and just can't get over the fact that the gender has changed. Even after being told, they still get it wrong. What would push it over the edge is someone who perhaps throws a lot of religious bigotry into and keeps trying to make the trans person 'change their mind.' However, if you bring that into it, also bring in someone who is both religious with similar beliefs and sympathetic. I hate feeling like the religious people in a book are all jerks. I personally hold a lot of the deep beliefs that makes the jerk I outlined a jerk. However, I don't think any of the trans people in my life would think I'm a jerk about it and we both know where the other stands on the matter. A jerk is a person, not a belief system.

TLDR; The person should just not get trans gender and keep referencing the old gender. Add in a bit of trying to change the person's mind about their gender and it should be the perfect thing to push someone who's already having a hair trigger off.

Stuff like intentionally calling them the wrong pronoun, asking 'what they really are?" And stuff should be good.

• An excellent reference for this would be to look up one of those "things you should never say to a trans* person" guides online

One important thing to remember when writing bigotry...the subtle stuff is what really hurts. Obvious examples are annoying, but not too bad except in large doses. It's the subtle, systemic and plausibly deniable occurrences which really hold minorities back.

Yeah there are some more subtle ones that tend to come just as a result of ignorance on the subject. Like...

-Using the wrong pronouns, either intentionally or on accident

-Same with birth name

-Asking shit like "Do you still have your ____?" "Are you getting the operation?" What's in someone's pants is only relevant if the two people having the conversation are planning on fucking in the future (Also, trope aside there is not a single operation?)

-Outing them

-Giving them suggestions on how to better present as their gender. "Oh you'd look more like a guy if you did-" "Well girls don't-". No. Gross. Don't do that unless specifically asked.

-Slurs are just a big no-no, as other people have said. I believe our useful notes page on transexuality goes into those already? I think it's possible to have T-word privileges like N-word privileges, but don't count on it.

edited 19th Aug '13 10:28:39 PM by Hermiethefrog

Depends on the context of the conversation and whether they're pre-T or not but:

• Saying that they should just "get over" their body or "just work with what you have", having the person imply that your guy is bringing the dysphoria on himself by "choosing" to dislike his body ("everybody has things they don't like about themselves, why can't you just accept it and move on")
• If your guy is straight then having the other person say something like "you should just accept you're a lesbian" or that they would somehow accept they're a "woman" if they just had sex with a guy, conversely if he's gay then something about he should just "stay a girl" so society would be more accepting of his relationships
• Using their birth name or the incorrect pronoun (as others have mentioned)
• Making subtle suggestions that they're a girl ("this chick I know had the same reaction/thought", "my sister is the same way", etc), or not subtle e.g. "I totally see you as a girl", or saying something to the effect of "I remember when you were a girl [...]"
• Having the offender say something that since the transguy was born with a vagina, he's supposed to be a girl or bring up nature in some way
• Since there's going to be a physical altercation of some kind, the guy can say something about how he doesn't hit girls
• Depending on whether your characters are moving, in a car, whatever, have the person hold open doors or whatever and do things that are (stereo)typically seen as chivalrous behaviour when a man is interacting with a woman
• The dialogue doesn't even have to be referring to transgender people directly, the other guy could be talking negatively about a different group of people that is clearly a stand-in for transgendered people (e.g. people who do body modification/have lots of tattoos "I don't understand why somebody would want to destroy their body like that, it's not natural/they must be crazy")

I'll stop before this turns into a wall of text...

@Hermiethefrog: At the risk of stirring a hornet's nest but I have to ask - is the accidental use of the wrong gender pronoun that offensive, specifically when no offense was intended by the other person?

I ask this because sometimes it can at times be difficult to tell whether a person is a transgender, a drag queen or a cross-dresser just by looking at them. In such a situation, using the male pronoun would be wrong if the person is a male-to-female transgender while likewise, it would be wrong to use the female pronoun for a male cross-dresser. And asking a person upfront might be seen as being intrusive into a person's personal life. Especially when in most circumstances, the only thing to come out of it is the satisfaction of making someone feel bad.

For comparison, there are lots of forms and situations that require people to list their "first name" and "last name" even though for a lot of people, the latter comes before the former (e.g. Chinese people); assuming they even have a family name to begin with (e.g. Indians, Muslims). Yet, most of the time, people don't take offense or complain about these kinds of systemic mistakes since there was nothing malicious intended.

Basically, what I'm getting at - and bringing back to the original question and topic - is this: Is it the act itself that is offensive or the intent behind it?

edited 20th Aug '13 10:42:17 AM by peasant

@peasant: intent matters, and so does awareness. Most transpeople I've met don't mind if you screw up the pronoun the first time...after all, we've been socialized to view physical appearance as an indicator of gender identity and it isn't as if transpeople wear little cards which say "my gender is X".

However, if you fail to remember even after being told several times...yeah, that starts to bother.

Think of a pronoun screwup as stepping on someone's foot. The first time, it's an accident and easily forgivable. After that, the person getting stepped on starts to think you're being careless and gets annoyed.

EDIT: And obviously, ignoring their gender expressions on purpose - e.g. they're wearing a dress, makeup and have breast implants, but you think of them as "still a man" is very offensive to them.

edited 20th Aug '13 11:51:39 AM by drunkscriblerian

Like Drunk said above me, if you're using the wrong pronouns multiple times after being told to stop, accidental or not, that's bad. One slip up is fine. Maybe two if you've [general you, not you specifically] known the person for awhile, they ask you to change pronouns, and you're trying to rewire your brain into using those pronouns.

I'm not gonna say it's easy to immediately think of someone you've known for awhile as the opposite gender. It takes some practice, like a name change. But again, if it happens multiple times then it looks like you're not trying to readjust your way of thinking. Also, if you make excuses for it as opposed to apologizing then that's kind of a dick move.

(I hope I'm not stepping on any boundaries by saying any of this stuff? If I'm wrong then please tell me.)

& : Yeah, that's what I figured. The situations I was primarily thinking of are for the first/one-off contacts people make with strangers. I think the context of familiarity (i.e. how well one party is known to the other) is an important component for Jetyl to consider when writing depictions of transphobia. What may be unacceptable behaviour from people who should know better is not necessarily equally inappropriate when done by a stranger; a la the example situation Jetyl cited.

edited 20th Aug '13 2:54:14 PM by peasant

A minor nitpick (hopefully), but just because someone doesn't follow someones else (possibly arbitrary) rules or thinking it doesn't mean that they have a phobia or are -phobic. They might just be dick...(maybe even in the sense of "I'm not an x-ist, I hate everybody!")

Like someone claiming to be a vegetarian while still eating fish (or eggs, dairy etc). If you claim that they are not a vegetarian are you a "dietist"(or being dietistic), or do you simply have a different view on what being a vegetarian mean?

On one of the Listserv forums I used to frequent there was a person who was born male, identified as female with lesbian orientation. Was at various stages of transformation when I knew her.

She took a lot of flack for the perceived "disparity" between her gender identification and her sexuality - "if you were born male and prefer females then you must be male" and (from some of the lesbians) "you're not a lesbian female, you're a fucking breeder who likes to prey on lesbians".

These comments went down exactly as you might expect.

Most people used the feminine pronouns when refering to her, except those who deliberatly used "he" and "him" to provoke a reaction.

edited 20th Aug '13 4:45:24 PM by Wolf1066

thanks for the advice everyone, however, one I think I should clarify is that this scene is short (I really don't want to spend all that much time on a jerk being a jerk) hence the need for more obvious transphobia as opposed to subtlety.

also as for clarification on the scene. the random jerk, is more random to the abundance (he's just an unnamed background character), not so much to Sam (the transman), who at least knows this person to some extent. also said jerk goes into the confrontation because he just found out that "he's a she", and Sam also does look convincingly male.

just though I'd give more info on the scene, since I'm still kinda stuck on dialogue (though luckily not as much as earlier)

Have you considered having the jerk refuse to let Sam use the male restroom? That seems like a situation that could demonstrate transphobia pretty quickly.

Of course, state laws being what they are, you're not guaranteed the right to use the restroom that matches with your gender everywhere. http://theartoftransliness.com/post/15853193148/using-the-mens-bathroom This gets into it more.

@Jetyl: let me ask you this; why do you feel the need to include a random jerk harassing a transperson? Is it to characterize how the transperson handles such hurdles?

Note: this is a legit question. Performing an Establishing Character Moment - especially early on in a story - is a time-honored literary tactic. I used it myself.

EDIT: looking at your OP, you wanted specifically transphobic slurs. Well, I'd have to know more about the situation...and honestly, you are better off having some reason for the confrontation occurring other than "there's this transperson, and this douchebag, and they're in the same room". Not saying that's what you're doing, just that said scenario - no matter how well you write it - is going to come off forced and artificial.

First off; have the trans-character have to confront the bigot for some reason unconnected to the bigotry...in a professional capacity, say, or over some unrelated issue. Then the bigot throws out some slurs.

Character motivation is important, even with villains who are basically disposable assholes.

edited 23rd Aug '13 12:11:16 AM by drunkscriblerian

true enough, so maybe more context would help. the scene that this confrontation comes from involves two other characters, a guy and a girl, with the Girl talking about how she has a Gaydar with 99% accuracy, and try's to prove this by guessing at the sexuality of all the people they see around them on the Boardwalk they're on.

Sam is there with the dialog going about:

Guy: what about that guy in the biker getup

Girl: That's a woman. also straight.

Guy: okay now I know your full of crap

Girl: But It's True! That's a Girl! There's nothing Down There!

Guy: right. whatever you say...

and said douche overheard this little conversation, confronted Sam about it, and got angry when it was true. and from the rough form of the scene (still lacking dialogue) he probably feels betrayed by this fact for some reason, as well as the idea that he and Sam know each other on some capacity.

and then as I said, the following scene involves a short tempered guy punching the douche in the face (followed by a full on fight) for his intolerance. Its just kinda the middle part I'm having problems with

edited 23rd Aug '13 7:43:49 AM by Jetyl

Honestly? The woman who's testing out her gaydar in that situation comes off as bad. Does she know that Sam is trying to present as male? Did she just out him? That sounds like she just outed him.

And "That's a girl, there's nothing down there". See, that's an example of what I meant when I said people who don't really know better tend to say things that are transphobic on accident. It's implying that the parts equal the gender.

and yeah, that's kinda the intention. the girl , Sarah, isn't the nicest character, come off as extremely annoying, is mildly sociopathic, and tends to talk like she know everything about something, even when she's making it up. and as stated in the next line a dialog, is the guy pointing out she doesn't even know any of the people she claimed where gay, or Bi, or in Sam's case, biologically a woman. she was doing pretty much to try an prove a point, and not even really that. more to push the guy's buttons, but that's a whole other thing.

I'd rather see her get punched.

Like Drunk said, that—dealing with someone that they know being transphobic or just plain rude—seems like a better opportunity for character development than "Random bigot stops to bully". Not to say that doesn't happen, because it unfortunately does. Still.

Yeah, I'd like to see the girl punched as well. Initial reaction and reinforced by the explanation of her nature.

But even without knowing her nature the "nothing down there" comment alone warrants a wallop.

Crass, uncalled for, definitely "transphobic" and it outed him in public.

I'd have her smacked in the face by a bloke and have no one there call him out for "hitting a girl" because she so frigging obviously asked for it.

Nods and murmurs of "she fucking deserved that".

edited 23rd Aug '13 12:55:29 PM by Wolf1066

So far the dude hasn't done anything wrong in this dialogue except be ignorant, which isn't as bad as purposeful ignorance that the girl has given, since it comes off as lecturing I-am-right-fear-me.

People with that attitude are usually not gonna be liked/sided unless they were written:

to be right all the time (hard to pull off, but a lot of asshole characters who are loved fall in this category)

be hoisted by their own pedestal.

it's a joke

So yeah, might wanna rewrite the scene if you want the dude to be the bad guy here. And not just by upping the guy's prejudice, cause otherwise both are basically just being bigots, aren't they?

edited 23rd Aug '13 12:59:21 PM by MrAHR

and the funny thing is, when you mentioned her being punched in the face, I realized Sarah is only really jerk/mean character how has not received any comeuppance, or future planed comeuppances. granted I think that's because compared to the other two asshole characters are worse, or at the very least, more active (the first being a misogynist fatass who jumps pretty quickly to murder after a guy embarrassed him and "took his property" and the other being a homophobic Feminazi who hospitalizes two guy for sitting in "her spot" in her first appearance). Sarah's biggest crime is usually just being annoying. that said, now that I've realized it, some minor physical pain should be coming in her future.

the problem is, I can't really re-write the scene on a basic level. what I'm actually writing is a comic, and I tend to do the actual writing part last (smart move I know), So I can't really change anything but Dialog at this point. that said, it is supposed to be kinda unjustified for Walter (the guy with the short temper) to attack, as it also relates to the previous scene he was in, where he beat the crap outta a guy for being Homophobic to his friend, but said friend saying he might have gone too far with it.

As someone who also does comics, I gotta say, you can just redraw it. It sucks and is horrible, but that's why you should usually be doing thumbnails.

Or you can change the dialogue, but yeah, comics are very restricting, so good luck on that.

From that description it sounds like the scene would be a bit more natural if said dialogue happens, guy goes up and asks Sam, "Hey my friend over there thinks you're a girl, is this true?" Sam confronts the girl, she tries to grab his junk to "prove" her hypothesis (and if Sam was packing that would get really embarrassing for the girl, but that aside), Sam stops her then punches her in the face.

However, if you really can't redraw the circumstances then I guess you could go with said dialogue happening, guy goes up to Sam, "My friend thinks you're a tranny. Are you? I didn't believe her but face-to-face you do kind of look like a chick." Sam punches guy in face.

If a random person comes up and asks somebody who's just minding their own business if they're trans, it would not be unreasonable for the trans person to deny it and to be very tense because that sort of confrontation usually predicates violence or harassment.