Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't think you made the connection between "tense election" and "civil war". <_< Which, would more than open the door for, oh, say, ISIS?
I'm pretty sure that if elections were held now HAMAS would win. Given that there's no way Israel is giving HAMAS power in the West Bank that means that whoever ends up in power would have no legitimacy and there would be more instability.
United Earth
Israel are not the arbiters of who is legitimate.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Shameful Display
Exactly, any government they prop up in the West Bank will be considered illegitimate.
No, but being the ones with the guns, the tanks and the attack helicopters they decide who's in power.
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
That's never stopped the Palestinians from refusing to take whoever the Israelis appoint (if that is even possible) seriously.
edited 7th Oct '15 1:19:52 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
The law in the night
A procrastination in of itself
Well gents, peace appears to be well and truly fucked. Please follow the signs to the designated exits, whomever is last out please shut off the lights.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
United Earth
There is no exit. These people live in open-air prisons, in a man-made Kafkaesque Hell.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The law in the night
With all the recent stabbing attacks I can't help but to appreciate the irony of the West Bank Palestinians acting like the Sicarii order did during the Roman occupation of Israel.
Galaxy News Radio
last I checked, the west bank wasn't closed off.
Anyone who wants to leave, Arab or Jewish, is free to f@#k off.
Bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts.
Beware the Crazy Man.
Which I'm sure is the point of making it said hell. Which is why they won't, apart from the fact that it's their home, which is reason enough to stay.
It's the policies that must change.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Galaxy News Radio
I was just making a point about Handle's comment regarding their being "no exit", not trying to advocate Palestinian Exodus.
not that a change of policies would change much.
Bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts.
Thus speaks yoneld:
That depends on whose policies are changing.
Neither Netanyahu nor Abbas will last forever, and the replacement of whomever is first to go will probably affect the replacement of the other.
EDIT: Terror attack in Petah Tikva, one injured
edited 7th Oct '15 10:06:09 AM by yoneld
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
Galaxy News Radio
so this is the third one today. 
Edit:
another day, another attack.
Yeshiva student stabbed in Jerusalem, seriously wounded
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4708473,00.html
edited 8th Oct '15 4:03:35 AM by bladeofdarkness
Bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts.
The law in the night
Galaxy News Radio
yeah, that's the same one i mentioned.
and there are reports of another incident (no full story yet).
Edit #1: Motherf#%ker.
Second stabbing today injures two in Tel Aviv
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4708473,00.html
Edit #2: Doublef#%ker.
Third stabbing attack in a day wounds one.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4708173,00.html
edited 8th Oct '15 6:48:10 AM by bladeofdarkness
Bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts.
I guess there's no doubt it's the third intifada at this point.
United Earth
So Palestinians are giving up on Suffer the Slings in favour of the Knife Nut?
... It's actually more threatening and less dangerous.
edited 8th Oct '15 8:59:45 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Galaxy News Radio
For whom ?
Bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts.
A nice butterfly
"We reduced gun violence, guys!"
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
United Earth
Everyone. Stabbing requires getting really up close, chances of escape are small, chances of causing fatal injury are smaller if you don't know what you're doing, more strength is required...
Galaxy News Radio
Considering that the mayor of Jerusalem had asked anyone who I has a gun to start carrying it, Me thinks not.
Small comfort to the stabbing victim.
edited 8th Oct '15 9:12:11 AM by bladeofdarkness
Bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts.
United Earth
The point is, there will be less of them than stoning ones, and their chances are better.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
But that's the same excuse as in Lebanon, basically. New leadership in tough times is not a bad idea. It could get worse, but it could get a lot better, too.