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Fantasy, abandoned by reason, produces impossible monsters.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
A procrastination in of itself
Marq, we're generally not that competent, people in the Arab World massively overestimate the capabilities of western intelligence organisations, our ability to do stuff is actually pretty limited, likewise we're terrible team players, even amongst ourselves (if you need proof, for at the fact that if the CIA and FBI had not been in a pissing contest with each other 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened).
Now individual actors working to try and maintain or benefit from the new status quo? Or not caring massively enough to actually push to change it? Sure. Iran is finding ISIS a great way to build up a local powerbase loyal to Iran within Iraq (though backing fighters against ISIS). Russia and Assad find ISIS a great way to discredit all opposition to Assad by association. The goverment of Israel finds ISIS a great way to distract people from Palestine while also enabling the Israeli goverment to make all Muslims out to be terrorists (the rest of us actually don't care about Palestine that much). The likes of the UK, US and France would really like the entire situation to go away but are so war weary and tired of all this shit that they're unwilling to commit the resources needed to actually change the situation much.
Also I find it interesting that he's ignored (possibly deliberately) one big actor when it comes to ISIS, that of your own country and its allies.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
edited 1st Oct '15 11:45:07 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
That can be a difficult mental block to get past.
A procrastination in of itself
Oh yeah the CIA and MI 6 are totally responsible for their own image, it probably works great for the actual agencies themselves, but it's a pain for everyone else.
Similar sure, but your bit about teeth clenching teamwork implied that the countries would be working together, they won't be, they can barely work with themselves, the fact that their goals may independently benefit each other isn't deliberate, it's actually very annoying to them, as they want to get their own benefits without letting their enemies also gain benefits.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
There are no allies in statecraft, only common interests. Considering how much soloing foreign intelligence agencies tend to do, I'm surprised if their operations ever align with the best interests of their respective countries.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I think part of the problem is that my people are so used to the way our government works — essentially a monolithic entity whose quasi-feudal internal structure is ultimately dominated by nepotism and cronyism — that they have a very hard time seeing the governments of liberally democratic countries as being very different in how they work (e.g. that bribes and favors are the exception rather than the rule, and it's increasingly difficult to get anywhere with either — not to mention avoid getting caught and punished — the higher in the government apparatus you go).
edited 1st Oct '15 12:19:11 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
That has nothing to do with the feudal nature of your government, Marq. That's common pretty much everywhere that isn't the West.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I'm just using the way my government is structured/operates because that is what everyone here sees. They don't see the rest of the world's countries that live under similar but not identical systems of authoritarianism/totalitarianism/dictatorship/despotism/any combination or permutation thereof. They see what they're living under.
edited 1st Oct '15 12:21:00 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
A procrastination in of itself
I actually think the biggest dissonance that people have is how the foreign policy of democratic governments can change on a dime, people are very used to a country having a coherent foreign policy that stays relatively the same, while certain issues certainly do stay the same a lot of foreign policy changes with each election.
As always, Polandball covers it pretty well.[1]
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![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
HGW XX/7
>implying India will be removing any noodle with shitty INSAS
Schild und Schwert der Partei
A nice butterfly
You guys sould leave all covert ops to Costa Rican intelligence forces.
How good are we?
I bet you guys haven't ever heard of them.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Nah, by the time they get "software updated", they'll be off that particular piece of crap.
edited 1st Oct '15 1:05:33 PM by FFShinra
The law in the night
Nah, probably half your flanker fleet will be probably be grounded for maintenance while the INSAS is being replaced.
I made my own avatar
Daesh cell uncovered in Israel: http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-isis-cell-uncovered-in-northern-israel-1001071103
Israel's General Security Services and Israel Police have uncovered an ISIS (Islamic State) cell in northern Israel. Publication was permitted today on some of the details of the cell, which was operating in the Nazareth region and was targeting the IDF and Israel Police.
It has been revealed that the seven members of the cell were arrested last month. The Israelis, all residents of the north, had acquired guns and had been practicing firing them. The seven were indicted in the Haifa District Court. Five of the seven already had a criminal record related to security offenses.
Four of the seven have been charged with organizing a terrorist group and setting up an ISIS cell in Israel. The four are Ahmed Mahajna (20), Mohammed Gazalla (23) both from Yefiya near Nazareth, and Mohammed Sharif (22) and Ahmed Ahmed (26) from Nazareth itself. Ahmed Ahmed is serving a life sentence for the murder of taxi driver Yefim Weinstein and allegedly spoke on the phone with the others and advised them on how to perpetrate terror attacks.
The defendants are charged with making contact with Israeli Arabs fighting for ISIS in Syria who encouraged them to train with their weapons and carry out terror attacks in Israel. The three are also charged with collecting information about an IDF base near Migdal Ha'emek and the police station in the town. They planned throwing a Molotov cocktail at the police station near the entrance to the city.
When questioned, the three admitted plans to hit stores in Yefiya and Nazareth that sell alcohol. One of the accused implicated himself in incidents in 2012 when Molotov cocktails were thrown at a place of gambling and a store selling alcohol. In the incidents people were injured and there was damage to property.
The accused had attempted to buy an M16 assault rifle but the deal collapsed due to a financial dispute. However, they did obtain dozens of bullets for pistols that they already owned.
Syrian rebels say Russia is targeting THEM, not Daesh: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/middleeast/syrian-rebels-say-russia-targets-them-rather-than-isis.html?_r=0
Only half?
Besides, New Delhi reserves the MK Is for noodles.
Just what the world needs right now...can't say I wasn't expecting it though.
EDIT- Also, the Taliban are being pushed out of Kunduz.
edited 1st Oct '15 4:23:24 PM by FFShinra
I made my own avatar
Residents of Kunduz tell of horror under Taliban rule: http://www.dw.com/en/amnesty-condemns-talibans-reign-of-terror-in-kunduz/a-18757355?maca=en-rss-en-all-1573-rdf
As Afghan government forces continue their efforts to drive the Taliban out of the strategically important city of Kunduz, Amnesty International (AI) has released alarming testimonies by civilians citing mass murder, abductions, rape, and house-to-house searches by Taliban death squads during the Islamist group's brief capture of the provincial capital earlier this week.
Citing local rights defenders, AI said that in order to track down their targets, the Taliban used a "hit list," which allegedly included the names and photos of activists, journalists and civil servants based in Afghanistan's fifth-largest city.
Targeted killings
The rights organization explained that when the militants took control of the National Directorate of Security (NDS) and other government and NGO offices in Kunduz on Monday, September 28, they also gained access to reams of information about NGO staff, government employees and members of the security forces - including addresses, phone numbers and photos.
"Since then, Taliban fighters have allegedly been using young boys to help them to conduct house-to-house searches to locate and abduct their targets, including women," said the group.
Citing local activists, AI also said the insurgents raped female relatives and killed family members, including children, of police commanders and soldiers, especially those working for the Afghanistan Local Police.
During their three-day takeover of Kunduz, Taliban fighters looted state buildings and family homes, took government vehicles and arms, and freed hundreds of inmates from the local prison, where they reportedly also raped, battered, and abducted female prisoners, according to AI.
An eyewitness told the group that a civilian woman wounded in the fighting between the Taliban and the security forces was killed point blank and in front of her husband, after they heard her screaming in pain.
Fearing Russian air strikes, Islamic State didn't hold Friday prayers, report says: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Fearing-Russian-air-strikes-Islamic-State-didnt-hold-Friday-prayers-report-says/articleshow/49196501.cms
Russian jets strike Daesh command center in Syria: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russian-jets-strike-command-centre-syria-090737916.html#NeQzJmX
The Sukhoi-34 jets also targeted a training camp - obliterating infrastructure which the ministry claims was being used to prepare "terrorists".
Moscow claimed it has carried out 18 attacks in Syria since Thursday night, with 12 of them hitting Islamic State targets.
According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, one Russian airstrike has killed at least 12 IS militants in Raqqa province.
Earlier, the group had reported that warplanes, believed to be Russian, had also targeted Qaryatain overnight - a town which lies about 80 miles northeast of Damascus.
Russian jets have mainly been bombing central and southwestern parts of Syria. Idlib has seen the brunt of the attacks, while Aleppo and Hama have also been struck.
Idlib province is controlled by a coalition of rebel groups - including the Nusra Front, a terror group linked to al Qaeda.
It comes as President Vladimir Putin prepares to discuss Russia's involvement in Syria's civil war with his German and French counterparts in one-on-one meetings.
On Thursday, the US accused Russia of "indiscriminate" bombing against the Syrian opposition, but the Kremlin said its aim is the same as that of America: to target terrorist groups.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has admitted IS is not his military's only target, as other anti-Assad groups will also be pursued.
"If it looks like a terrorist, if it walks like a terrorist, if it acts like a terrorist, if it fights like a terrorist, it's a terrorist," he told reporters at the UN General Assembly in New York.
The Kremlin has denied reports that some of its strikes earlier in the week had killed at least 36 civilians, including five children.
Russia, which sees the regime of Bashar al Assad as a strategic ally in the Middle East, began strikes after a request from the government in Damascus.
I'm still a bit weirded out by the fact that Sergei Lavrov used the 'walks like a duck' reasoning.
Anybody want space lobsters?
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
I checked, and yep - Qaryatain is IS territory, as is the whole of Raqqa province. Good to see them finally hitting the State for once.
What's precedent ever done for us?
They said they were going to. Not their fault the West always assumes they're twirling their moustaches while saying it.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
The fact that their initial targets included US-backed rebels (while JAN is strong in the north, it's a mistake to think they don't have moderates working alongside them, and several of those moderate groups have reported attacks) and that they're explicitly backing Assad, who's been caught collaborating with IS to crush his less psychotic opposition several times, does leave a certain impression, though. Russia's leadership may not be moustache-twirling supervillains (although Putin and Lavrov's theatrics in diplomatic situations can sometimes make one wonder...), but they're working with a guy who's one of the closest real-world equivalents to that trope.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Like I keep saying, the very same rebels were being doubted of their moderation before Russia began the airstrikes. Now it's apparantly so very clear.
Now, I think there are moderates among them, (which is why I've never been happy with the scare quotes used in such articles), but it is also a reality that they are well entrenched with JAN units.
Lie with dogs and all that jazz. Harsh but true.
As for the rebels being US supported, that has not been (effectively) true since this month began. That training program was suspended by virtue of not being effective.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
in a demonstration of how organised US foreign policy is at the moment, you're conflating two separate programs. The first was that big formal training camp that produced, like, five people who immediately surrendered to JAN. The second program is the CIA's less formal support of several established rebel groups like Tajammu al-Aaza, providing them with arms, equipment, and on-the ground training. It's the latter who Russia's been pounding, including one incident in which they blew up an FSA communication mast supplied by America.
HGW XX/7
Meanwhile, in a basement in Langley, a shady looking fellow blows dust off a big box labelled 'FIM-92 STINGER', runs their hands over the lid, and says 'time to wake up, my pretties'.
edited 3rd Oct '15 5:16:44 AM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Hey, I know nothing about Muslim Prayers either! I am a perfectly qualifie military commander for Boko Haram!
BRB adding this to my curriculum
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes