The "Would people know what this means" thread

Because... why the heck not? It comes as no surprise that upon doing research on a specific topic we pick up and intuitively know the jargon of the chosen field... When others don't.Or that as each of us come from different cultures and subcultures, we know or understand words differently from others. Because ot everyone is going to know what a "onesie" is or interpret a character showing everyone his brand new pants the same way.

Yeah. Kinda sorta a lame topic. But one I feel that is kind of crucial. Will the average reader know this word or phrase I just used or should I elaborate further or use something else?

In the vain hopes this thread will catch on, here's my Q:

Would the average person - and in particular teens and twenty-somethings - automatically know what a "muscle shirt" is and why a girl who is only wearing it and nothing underneath would panic/get embarrassed when a man suddenly barges into her room?

I'm getting an image of, like, a wifebeater thing? I'll look it up in a second, but I feel that's not the purpose of this thread.

[edit]Okay, i've seen it, but I don't see why it would be embarassing, unless it's one of those spandex deals you can see nip through.

edited 20th Jul '13 5:43:35 PM by GlassPistol

I would understand what she was wearing, but not why she was embarrassed by it. Unless by "nothing underneath" you mean she had no bottoms on, just the shirt.

edited 20th Jul '13 6:02:31 PM by Madrugada

Because the character is a girl, she'd probably be more likely to wear a tank top as opposed a muscle shirt, which is (where I'm from, at least) usually called a wifebeater. Most tank tops are specifically designed to prevent sideboob, and the ones that aren't are meant to be layered with other shirts. If anything, she would be more annoyed and angry just by virtue of the fact that someone burst into her private space unannounced.

Hmm... I was under the impression that muscle shirts are tops with really big (sometimes cut out) arm holes in them. Or am I mistaken?

@Glass Pistol: That's correct. If a reader is needing to look up something online to know something that I'm talking about, that means I probably fumbled somewhere in my gauging of what an audience knows and doesn't know, in this case being I should explain more or switch to a more common term. Even if that means changing the scene.

edited 21st Jul '13 1:35:43 AM by peasant

I was under the impression that a "muscle shirt" is like a T-shirt but tighter fitting and with shorter sleeves to show off muscles - at least, that's what we call a "muscle shirt" here in NZ. If it has large arm holes and usually a large neck opening it's something we call a singlet.

I certainly wouldn't get why the woman should feel embarrassed if she were wearing a muscle shirt or a singlet with nothing under it.

I'm going to have similar "will people understand it?" issues with the language used in one of my WIP where English language is going to vary from 18th through to 21st century vocabulary - including the older meanings of "discover", "intercourse" etc

I'm hoping that I'll be able to make it clear in context.

Woah. Wolf just made me realize why my reaction was "what's embarrassing about that?"

The shirt he's describing is the same thing I picture when I hear "muscle shirt" — a tight t-shirt with shorter than-usual sleeves.

The tight tank-top style with deep armholes and neckline is a "wifebeater" in slang, or an "A-shirt" if you go by what the package says. Or, if you just said that she was wearing "a man's undershirt", that's what I'd picture. (A "singlet" is what Greco-Roman wrestlers wear)

I'm from the US, not New Zealand, but I'm also from a different generation — I was born in the 50's, which probably has something to do with it.

For reference: To me, in this photo◊, the guy in the red-and black striped shirt and the guy in the all-black shirt are wearing "muscle shirts"; the guy in the yellow-blue-and-orange shirt on the far right is wearing a "tank top"; and the guy in the white shirt with black edging in the very front is wearing a "wifebeater". (This◊ is a "singlet", and this is a "t-shirt"))

edited 21st Jul '13 5:56:11 AM by Madrugada

It's a type usually for men, and probably leaves little to the imagination if not designed for a women's chest.

edited 21st Jul '13 6:17:59 AM by Night

Hmm... Seems I've been misusing the term "muscle shirt". Basically, I was thinking of something along the lines of these: [1]◊ [2]◊ [3]

Any idea what they should be called?

Lol. Looks like this thread is already bearing fruit! Though, I think this thread should be called The "Would people know what this means" or "What's the right word for this" or "Does this actually mean what I think it means" thread.

@Wolf 1066: Yeah. It sounds like your Wi P does very much run the risk of some people not understanding some of the words if not explained properly. You should definitely bring them up as they arise.

I don't think those have an official name. I'd call it a "deeply cut-away tank top", myself.

On the website that image came from (International Jock sportswear), they have a category for "Tank shirts" that those are in, and another category for "Muscle shirts" that they aren't included in, but which are all like what Wolf and I pictured when we heard the name.

On the Aididas sportswear website, the ones like you showed a picture of are "singlets"; the ones with higher armholes are "training shirts."

edited 21st Jul '13 9:18:28 AM by Madrugada

I don't have anything useful for the OP, but I'd like to borrow the hive mind for something else since it seems they've got plenty. Just a small quote from my WIP — one of my alpha readers didn't follow, but another thought it was obvious what the speaker was implying. I'm wondering which is the more likely reaction, and if there's any way to clarify if so while still keeping it a snarky implication rather than an explicit comment.

edited 21st Jul '13 9:39:56 AM by KillerClowns

I dunno, I think I nailed down what it meant pretty much immediately.

If what you mean is that the supply officers up-chain are selling part of it and watering down the rest (to keep the volume the same) as it passes through their hands), yeah, I'd say you got it right.

Ditto. That was my understanding of it too.

With regards to the "muscle shirt" question, I think I first came across the attire under that name from websites like Forever 21 and Tumblr, which alternatingly referred to them as either "muscle shirts" or "muscle tees".

However, given the assortment of terms being used there; this tells me that the term is far from universal and I'll have to figure out a way to make it clear without the text reading too weird. Oh well... back to the drawing board.

edited 21st Jul '13 10:23:10 AM by peasant

Regarding the "whisky like water", I had the same interpretation as Madrugada, I believe, and it seems fairly clear to me.

I instantly got the same interpretation of watery whiskey as Maddy, Peasant and Ars Thaumaturgis.

Maddy, talk about divided by a common language. In first pic, the ones you identified as muscle shirts are what I'd call tank tops shirts and the ones you deemed tank top and wife beater are more like what we'd include under the broad category of singlets, though this◊ is also a singlet (Archetypal Kiwi Bloke "Fred Dagg" in his black singlet, shorts and gumboots).

Not sure what the second pic you showed is - it looks like a specialised one-piece sports outfit, where a singlet to us is primarily an undergarment top.

The pic of the T-shirt is what I think when I say/hear T-shirt.

For me, "muscle shirt" is close to a T-shirt but tight fitting and with shorter sleeves.

Peasant, I never would have imagined any of those things when reading/hearing "muscle shirt", but a quick google for "muscle-tee" brought up plenty of images of them.

For what it's worth, I think of all the shirts posted in this thread as 'tank tops' (except the examples Madri posted as 'singlet' and 't-shirt'). :P

11 gave me the same impression as it seems to have everyone else.

@Killer Clowns. If what we've assumed is correct, you've certainly conveyed the information in a succinct and humorous fashion and it looks like damn fine writing to me. I can hear the narrator's voice and feel his frustration at receiving substandard hooch due to lightfingered bastards.

Heh... Sorry to re-raise the whole "muscle tee" thing again...

I've been working and reworking the description in order for it to not appear awkward or verging on Description Porn while conveying a clear idea to the reader since her wearing a "muscle tee" as designed in this pic◊ does carry consequences later on; namely providing Establishing Character Moments for a couple characters based on their reactions after catching a glimpse of her attire.

Anyway, the text goes as follows:

Would that help clarify the imagery to the reader and does it look awkward or conspicuous? For some added context, the POV character does have a tendency to go on tangents on occasion.

edited 22nd Jul '13 2:17:58 PM by peasant

"While solving the indian wakeup call,"

Would people understand this?

Well, I don't know what that means. Maybe in context? *hint hint*

"Indian Wake-up call": Nope. Not a clue from that snippet. More context might change my answer somewhat.

"Muscle-tee": Reads ok to me. My first thought on reading "muscle-tee_ is still a tight shirt with shorter than normal sleeves, but the rest of the paragraph provides a smooth "Oh, ok, that other style" transition.

I'm guessing it's either someone urgently answering the call of nature in the morning, after a meal of Indian food the night before.

Or they're a cavalry officer waking up to the sound of distant war drums.

Context would determine which is which I guess. Either of these close?

edited 22nd Aug '13 8:06:04 AM by LittleBillyHaggardy

It' part of a Openings to Avoid hat-trick.

The character wakes up, walks into a bathroom and tries to solve the "indian wakeup call" while leaning to look into the bathroom mirror.

I could use native american instead if that would be clearer.

edited 22nd Aug '13 8:25:50 AM by m8e

This line is hilarious.

.....I still don't get it. The link doesn't mention anything about Indians or calls.

edited 22nd Aug '13 8:26:50 AM by shiro_okami