Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Talking about Bob Kane, right?
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Kane was actually kinda worse than Liefeld, in that Liefeld at least DID come with Deadpool's visual design, as far as I can tell. Kane's original Bat-man sketches were so hideous Bill Finger had to tweak them into the character we know and love. Keep in mind Finger was a writer, not a graphic designer, and he still came with a far better design than Kane's original.
So Bob Kane was less talented at his field than a guy who never got paid for drawing *and* Rob Liefeld.
Although Bob Kane at least could draw feet, and his women didn't have snapped spines. That balances it out in the Liefeld thing, right?
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Didn't Bob Kane screw over the Superman creators in addition to Bill Finger?
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Yeah
.
At least Liefeld never threw Jim Lee and Todd Mc Farlane under the bridge. Maybe not because of a lack of wishes to do so, but still.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Holy fucking shit.
I mean, I'm more of a Marvel guy, and I've seen a lot of shade thrown at Stan Lee (much of it undeserved), but Bob Kane is a fucking dick. I saw that photo of his gravestone on an article from Cracked, and I actually remember one of the comments on the article being about how it was probably the douchiest gravestone in the world.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
No matter how many times I see it, I still can't freaking believe that gravestone.
edited 29th Aug '16 7:24:48 PM by KnownUnknown
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Forget the Joker, Bob Kane will forever be Batman's greatest villain.
But, we can take solace in the fact that, Jim Steranko gave Bob Kanewhat he deserved.
edited 29th Aug '16 8:41:58 PM by Nightwire
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
That Jim Steranko fella is awesome.
I actually just watched this little video of Stan Lee and Frank Miller talking about Bob Kane. Stan's a nice guy and all, but you could tell from what he was saying of Bob Kane that he knew the guy had an ego.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Rob Liefeld imo isn't a very good artist or creator, but I can at least say that he actually does his own stuff for the most part. Kane, from what I understand, was both bad at art and also had a bunch of people ghost-drawing for him at his studio and all he ever did was take credit for other people's hard work. DC is in a shitty position because of Kane's contract in that for a long time they aren't able to give Finger as much prominence in his creation as they'd like. They're doing what they can, like paying Finger's descendants a pension and I believe they gave him a 'special thanks" in Bv S.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
They've started crediting him lately for creating Batman. Ultimately Kane still has his name on there, but in fairness he contributed the name. So like, pretty much 5% of the work out of the 95% that Bill Finger did.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
I say things.
Screw Bob Kane, I always say.
There's a really good episode of Kev Smith's podcast where he interviews a guy that wrote a book about Bill Finger. That really was the start of the movement to get Bill Finger the actual credits he deserves. We made the first step "Based on characters created by Bob Kane with Bill Finger."
Now we just need it to be "Based on characters created by Bill Finger with maybe just a little marginal amount of help from Bob Kane." It's a very interesting interview, so if you've got the time, give it a listen
A guy who lives on the street behind me interviewed Bob Kane for the Batman Begins DVD. Certainly sounded like a pretentious blowhard, the way I was told he based Bruce Wayne's suaveness on himself.
Bob Kane's biggest talent was apparently the ability to negotiate deals for himself. I mean, he didn't even draw most of the material attributed to him (of course, under the studio system he's hardly the only one who did that, but still).
This is me glaring at what Dan Didio and Adam Beechen did to Cass Cain. Seriously, that was messed up.
No one would have taken Zod seriously if that happened.
edited 29th Aug '16 10:18:21 PM by windleopard
Bob Kane created the name "Bat-Man" and drew a suit that had red batwings and a weird red costume.
Bill Finger created everything else. Commissioner Gordon? Bill Finger. The Joker? Bill Finger. The Batmobile? Bill Finger.
Funnily enough, Finger was well known at the DC offices for always carrying a notebook to write things down in. So one day, the writer for Green Lantern decided to create a supervillain based on Bill Finger who did the same thing. He named the character William Hand and his supervillain name was the Black Hand.
edited 29th Aug '16 10:19:18 PM by alliterator
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If you ask me, Bob Kane was the one who should have been made into a supervillain.
Wait a minute! Bob kANE... Bane...
Love is Love is Love
No one's taking him seriously now with Shannon's bug-eyes and scenery chewing. At least with Gerard, you go beyond the point of no return and he eats half of Metropolis.
Ok I just saw gravestone....dear lord, you CAN feel the doucheness come from that grave, I almost imagine in a very little letter "fuck you finger, I will fuck you forever"
he is pretty much THAT guy
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
It's hard to defend that gravestone, but almost everything else is the way the business works sometimes. Kane had the original idea and Finger was contracted to him. Who gets credited is a matter of contracts and not contribution.
On Liefeld, he's really a lot like Stan Lee in that he created a template that was improved upon substantially by others. From the start Deadpool was a jokester foil to Cable and popular with readers, but it took a good ten years before he became a sensationally crazy character.
Why can't the people writing/drawing/editing/etc. superhero stories always be as good as their fictional characters? Though, Bruce Wayne can be a jerk. He still has a heart of gold. It can be hard to find that heart of gold in some people.
Has someone found a family link between Thomas Edison and Bob Kane?
Rob Liefeld imo isn't a very good artist or creator, but I can at least say that he actually does his own stuff for the most part.
Actually, there's been a lot of controversy about Liefeld using 'ghost' artists and then skimming them off in their payment, although it's debatable if because of his own will or because his studios were undergoing genuine problems at the time.
Ditto for the end of his partnership with Alan Moore.
edited 30th Aug '16 5:33:55 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Liebfeld worked with Alan fucking Moore?
Isn't that basically the equivalent of Michael Bay working with Stanley Kubrick or Nickelback working with Jello Biafra?
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Why not? It's that kind of integrity and honor that built one of the most successful superhero franchises of all time.
I know it's been like five pages, but I just had to make that joke.
edited 29th Aug '16 6:05:28 PM by KnownUnknown
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.