Shin Megami Tensei IV *SPOILERS ABOUND*

Also, it seems our assumptions about Lucifer from the Japanese spoilers were wrong. Rather than a means to perpetuate the war forever, he's actually a fake "bad guy" designed to make Law seem better by comparison.

edited 27th Sep '16 7:42:06 PM by HamburgerTime

He waxes some interesting philosophic upon his defeat- "I am fallen, but an angel I remain."

IV!Lucifer seems to be unwitting to his role in YHVH's plans.

I sure said that!

Am a bit disappointed though that this means yet again Law is jerking everyone around and is blatantly the worst.

edited 27th Sep '16 7:54:16 PM by HamburgerTime

I like how the final boss has a move named "Planned Chaos".

edited 27th Sep '16 7:57:08 PM by Moth13

SJ is the one and only mainline game where Chaos throws the first punch. I find that interesting. You wouldn't expect, well, Chaos to be the reactive ones after all.

I mean, you never hear much in the defense of Chaos save for "Law is worse". Lucifer is usually more personable than the Law reps tend to be but that's really it and, as the game makes clear, the Great Will is good. Neutral consistently being objectively the best tends to squash most Chaos vs. Law debates anyway.

edited 27th Sep '16 8:04:11 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.

Basically Lucifer is The Scapegoat but still a puppet. A puppet who on some level wants to be truly free but can't. It puts a truly sad spin on his chaos dialogue from IV where he pities angels for not thinking for themselves and trying to be free. He can't be anything but a puppet subtletly moving things as half of ***** and he realize he's consciously screwing himself over.

Also it helps that he's being perfectly reasonable while Law demeans everyone not Chosen and the humans whine about being manipulated.

edited 27th Sep '16 8:08:21 PM by OmegaRadiance

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Chaos is, almost by definition, vaguely more tolerant of deviance than Law is. Lucifer or whoever else is acting as the voice of Chaos in a given scene can be sincerely complimentary to you without it being against their philosophy, whereas Law is extremely rigid and authoritarian and thus logically cannot bend like Chaos can.

I sure said that!

I like how people failed to understand Merkabah was only friendly to people when it helped manipulate the chosen in IV, but never showed any of it directly to those who it considered filth and wasn't trying to sway to its side. Even then Jon made the Common Stock to insult Flynn's birth/class on Neutral.

Yet they somehow think te angels being jerks to Filth is out of character in IVA. Shows how easily they fall for deceit.

edited 27th Sep '16 8:22:27 PM by OmegaRadiance

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Was it really Jon that made the "Common Stock" insult? I would think that, given the nature of Law, Merkabah really wouldn't leave much of Jonathan's will intact and instead used Jonathan's voice as a way to twist the knife in Flynn.

Alright, so, I got to the "Is you a big fucker?" question.

I picked "yes." It hurt.

... I'm a smidge sad Nozomi's race isn't Fairy.

edited 28th Sep '16 1:19:01 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!

But that's the thing, they generally worked pretty hard to be Faux Affably Evil up until they have nothing to gain from them. And since a significant chunk of this game has the Angels working with the unclean ones, you'd think they'd keep that Faux act up at least to try to sway some of the humans onto their side.

But since the game is "okay, good neutral or bad neutral?" and Law and Chaos are an afterthought, they get flanderized.

edited 28th Sep '16 6:27:08 AM by Larkmarn

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

Haha, giving Medusa that attack buff was completely worth it. I'm glad I decided to do that mission before the Excalibur one, since if I didn't have the extra levels I'm sure Titan would've given me an extremely hard time.

Man, I must've lucked out on Titan. I went in with no prep and wiped the floor with him. I thought he was a Breather Boss.

Guess I was just lucky.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

x3: Which means they pose no threat to what they want even when they are working together. The Angels don't hide their scheming when they are confident in their victory. They'd also be right if it weren't for Dagda already having his own Godslayer in Nanashi, the only human capable of toppling their goals along with the Divine Powers. Even a Human army is nothing before them as we see with the quick slaughter that happens in the three way fight.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

"Is you a big fucker?" Is that an actual line from the game?

Oh hey rereeading back the translated interview from Apocalypse Artbook, Miyata's description of Nanashi choosing Massacre/Anarchy/Whatever sounds like he would pick all the Light aligned nice options before picking it.

• Miyata: I personally believe that from a certain point of view, the ending where you kill everyone is actually a good one. That is a result that adhered to your own scale of legitimacy, without denying anyone. You are in the same position as YHVH and are also preserving the bond with the partners who turned into demons. Well, this is just the way I see things though, nothing definitive.

The fact that you are choosing to preserve your bonds this way shows he would have naturally cared about the others, thus picking the asshole options was never really a choice except when it pissed demons off. Like Medusa's cursing.

As why he's calling them demons it's because they are the Shin Megami Tensei.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Exit Quetzalcoatl and Asahi's dad.

Nah, that's my boiling down of the alignment lock scene.

Have to say, hearing Flynn and your Goddess following Vishnu's defeat is... pretty creepy.

I sure said that!

Aww...

I've also met Maruwo now, who got audible laughter from me. BE YOURSELF!

edited 28th Sep '16 11:05:07 AM by HamburgerTime

Hey, so I'm lost and FA Qs for this are still a bit spotty. I'm off to infiltrate Tsukiji Hongwanji but... I have no idea how to get there. There was some very quick dialogue from two ROG members saying find two people but I can't find them, and that information isn't saved in the quest so now I'm just wandering aimlessly.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

You're looking for a passageway in Ginza that will lead you to one of the Ring of Gaea's old prisons, where the Yuriko faction has holed itself up in.

You can walk about on the surface roads in Ginza and everything now.

edited 28th Sep '16 1:59:07 PM by Pulse

I sure said that!

Sweet YHVH. Three back-to-back bosses with no saving or healing in between?

Epidemic in Mikado has ten or so battles in a row with no heals inbetween.

Ain't it awesome!?

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.