Gatchaman Crowds

Wow, that finale went out like a damp squib.

I was of the impression that OD didn't transform - All this time - because if he did, his victory would be assured; Except that victory would be a moot point, because the entire planet would be destroyed. But then he defeats BK in the most anticlimatic punching match ever.

The whole show postulates an incredibly naive view of human nature, to tell the truth. It's what the social justice wave believes the Internet should be like, instead of the hive of scum and villainy we get. Rui basically gives EVERYONE superpowers, and somehow things work out fine: I'm firmly of the opinion that you would get something like Kid Miracleman's rampage in Miracleman, because if everyone has a gun, it's not long before someone starts shooting.

[C], by the same company, or /tg/'s Joker Quest, to my mind, feels like a more realistic take on things: Give people power, and they will devour each other alive. The crowd has a voice, and it snarls.

This really shouldn't have been a Gatchaman show, because Gatchaman has always been about the heroic actions of a handful of extraordinary individuals. The characters seem lost, as if they've blundered into the wrong kind of series, and are waiting for someone to give them stage directions. (It's sort of the way the V for Vendetta movie missed the entire point of what V stood for.)

It really should've been about the magical crossdresser and the ridiculously upbeat girl.

In fact, I'd go on to say that the entire show rides the social justice wave. The bad guy is an internet troll defeated through the power of positivism, people are nice and placid and willing to do things for upvotes, and we have no less than three ambiguously homosexual characters.

It's not a bad show - I guess - but it's kind of lost on me, because I fundamentally don't agree with it.

Very, very mediocre.

edit: Also, Rui not transforming seems like a wasted opportunity. Or were they already scraping past on the budget as they were?

edited 27th Sep '13 11:32:46 PM by iridium248

Sometimes it's okay to not be a cynical pessimist.

But really, if everyone has powers, everyone is equal. Wouldn't be different from now. You wouldn't be able to get away with more just because you have powers, because everyone else does too. Would just be a different base of the general power level.

Very much this. To go into further detail...

If anything, the society of GC is much more equal after Crowds; a Crowds is stronger than any single human even without training, and you can't train a Crowds to be stronger. Even ten Crowds controlled by martial artists will lose to a hundred average joes of sufficient determination, and society works because lawbreakers are always outnumbered. If anything, it depowers the lawbreaker, because the lawbreaker is more likely to reach for force multipliers; Crowds lets the average citizen fight back, even if they have no training and a much lower level of physical ability.

It's not perfect, but that genie wasn't going back in the bottle. Rui's solution was the only solution, full stop. If I could press a magical button and give everyone in the world Crowds right now, I'd first ask to see the rest of the buttons (because who would make just that one button? that would be a total waste!), but then I'd very strongly consider it.

Your comment about the Gatchamen seeming to be "in the wrong kind of series" is very funny, and I don't mean that in a rude way. Congratulations! You're absolutely dead-on — you got what the show was saying there. Please consider what the show was saying by placing such characters in a modern setting where the real enemy is the evil inherent in mankind. This is a very important part of the message, and you're really very close!

Or just read my posts last page, because they're kind of a cheat sheet. But I think this is something worth thinking about yourself!

edited 28th Sep '13 2:15:16 AM by Einander

In the long run, I'd expect this to be true, but I think what happened in the show is an incredibly optimistic take in the short run. I'd expect much more panic, confusion, and random lashing out

I sort of agree to this and sort of don't. I do feel that they were trying to say something about the nature of heroes and their place in society, but it didn't come across very well

Also, I think you're missing a larger issue: Having the characters you've been following for most the series mostly just stand there during the climax really isn't that much fun to watch

Well, Utsutsutsu and the rest of them didn't really show up, and O.D. was about as useless as I thought he'd be. Hajime was basically just watching all the pieces she'd placed fall into place. Which I found enjoyable. And kind of what I expected. The alternative would've been to talk Katze down. But you know, Show, Don't Tell.

But overall, despite carrying the name, the show was never about the Gatchamen. And the CROWDS were basically just a plot device. The show was always about society. So if you expected some heroic sentai action finale, you've not been watching the same show as I have.

It's funny, that's in many ways the opposite of the problem with it I had; a lot of the finale felt contrived to add action and chances for people to show off. CROWDS conveniently turning into cubes instead of dying, OD's pointless fight...

Thank you Eiander. Your posts very much helped put my thoughts in order. Though if O.D. was meant to have died (not a given with Utsu-Utsu's healing ability if you ask me) it did feel a touch underplayed.

Though the final scene does put Hajime's phone call in context is does leave me with one niggling question... Where exactly did Hajime seal Katze? Because that scene is a little vague and that regard and some of the possible places have weird implications.

One has to wonder why they even bothered with the Gatchaman thing, if they just wanted to do some social commentary.

I didn't say there wasn't any action. However, I don't think there was particularly much of it. O.D's fight comes the closest to what I said, but it's hardly heroic. Maybe that was the intention, but it certainly wasn't the result. And I think it would be more contrived if defeating the CROWDS did kill people. They're not the actual people, so they shouldn't die from it.

Contrast, I think. To look at it from a super hero perspective gives it another shade.

@Knightof Lsama

It's the other way around. Hajime's phone call puts the final scene in context. Without that phone call, we wouldn't know what Hajime did with Katze, where exactly did she seal him. But with that call, particularly the part when she reassures her mother that no matter what happens she will always be herself, we can safely conclude that she sealed Katze inside herself.

So...I guess this counts for Gainax Ending?

Definitely should have been longer.

Is it a problem if I haven't watched the original?

This show is In Name Only, so no.

I am just gonna say something about what happened to Berg-Katze and MESS-chan. Someone already mentioned Berg-Katze being sealed. Remember that the last time we see the MESS, it was going with Hajime. I think she used the MESS to seal Berg-Katze in her body.

TBH, despite my own cynicism, I actually liked the show. Probably for the same reason I watched Tamayura. My only problem has already mentioned: How come there was no reaction to OD's death? Was the body never found?

I don't see how it does.

edited 28th Sep '13 7:01:03 AM by AnotherDuck

OD died? My impression was that he got stabbed by Katze before he could finish spreading his wings, then staggered up to the surface and gave Rui his note. It wasn't clear to me that he actually died. . Also, I like your idea about Katze and the Mess. That makes sense to me.

Hmmm...given what we see the MESS can do, yeah. Definitely possible.

edited 28th Sep '13 8:10:20 AM by universalperson

254: But think about what Rui did.

Sure, Rui reached out to the people in Tachikawa and gave them all Crowds — but more importantly, he gave Crowds to people who were not there, who were in no danger, and motivated them to help out. They had no reason to panic or freak out. In turn, when the situation starts to stabilize, fewer and fewer people in Tachikawa would have reason to lash out and make things worse.

Furthermore... If there were lawbreakers who wanted to take advantage of it, Tachikawa was filled with police, JSDF, Gatchamen, and any good samaritan Crowds that listened to Rui's invitation. That makes it kind of a poor choice if you want to take your new Crowds on a crime joyride. Sure, this may have meant Crowds attacked other places... But the incidents would be isolated and more easy to handle. Like people, Crowds are only dangerous to authority in very large numbers. The net effect is much higher in terms of people who want to help (who are very likely to go to this one spot) and lower in terms of lawbreakers (who can and probably do go anywhere else).

You know what I like about this finale and this series? It feels more solid, not less, the more I think about it. That is tremendously rare.

Yeah. Rui's plan actually works pretty well. The Crowds are all pretty much equal, so only numbers really matter and they teleport. So even if there was a riot you could send in people from outside the affected area. You would need a huge majority to actually do something. I would guess they probably have alot of non-combat uses like construction and stuff also. I wouldn't say it's foolproof(nothing is, really)...but it's actually pretty solid as long as the majority of people are sane.

edited 28th Sep '13 2:11:16 PM by kiukiuclk

The day that episode 12 of Gatchaman Crowds aired, someone made the following post on 4chan:

"I logged in just to give you guys this information. It seems like the original episode 11 was too long to play on TV. So they replace the episode 11's Part A(first half) with the special theme(I believe it was originally planned for a extra episode) and moved the orignal Part A to Part B. Episode 11's Part B was moved to episode 12's Part A and so on. This is why the ending doesn't seem to be complete. Episode 12's Part B is pretty much all taken

From the Gatcha director"

Link to the original post: http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/94125880/#94152501

In other words, what this guy said is that due to time constraints, episodes 11 and 12 were messed around with. The broadcast episode 11 got the recap and the first part of the actual episode, while the broadcast episode 12 got the second half of the actual episode 11 and only the first part of the real episode 12. This leaves the second part of episode 12 to be released sometime later. As you can see, the guy didn't really cite this information, so it has to be taken with a grain of salt. However, there are several hints that indicate he's probably telling the truth.

• 1. Offscreen content

Firstly, there's the most obvious thing: there's stuff missing. The second part of the episode 12 we got ended with Hajime writing with her NOTE, and then we get the ED and epilogue, not explaining what happens in between. Another half an episode would probably be good to fill this part in.

• 2. Comment on Twitter

https://twitter.com/GATCHAMANCrowds/status/383645208375619584

"We hope you enjoyed Gatchaman #12. Although this ends the on-air broadcast, please look forward to an announcement in the next few days."

While this doesn't say exactly say what's going to happen, it does obviously hint that there's more of something to come. It could be this, an OVA, or something else, but more content of some form does seem to be coming, so the true half of episode 12 is a possibility.

• 3. Names of the episodes

Episode 11 is named "Gamification." However, the gamification was really in the first part of episode 12, where Rui spread the Crowds to everyone and made a game out of it. Also, episode 12 is called "Collage," and we didn't see much that had to do with collages in the episode we got. Thus, the "collage" could be referring to something in the second half of the true episode 12.

• 4. Changing OP

As you all should now, the Gatchaman Crowds OP changes as the team unveils their suit. However, the OP of episode 12 contained OD's suit, before the viewer got to see it in the show. Now, what took place in the first half of "episode 12?" That's right, OD's transformation. So, if that was really the s half of episode 11, seeing OD's suit in the OP of episode 12 would make sense. I suppose this version of the OP was kept so that all the versions of the OP would have a chance to play before the series was over.

• 5. The Recap

While the recap was rather nice, it was also out of place and took time away from other things. The above 4chan post does give an explanation on why the recap was there.

So, from all of this, it does seem like things are pointing to there being more to episode 12 sometime in the future.

tl;dr Gatchaman Crowds probably hasn't had its actual ending yet.

Hmm... Good to know, I look forward for the complete ending.

If that is indeed correct that makes makes it a little more understandable.

this is End Of Evangelion all over again...

edited 29th Sep '13 10:10:22 AM by Kiefen

I doubt we get a giant naked Utsutsu.

It did feel like there was a bit missing between the whole appearance of the Mess and everything that happened after that.

Giving everyone superpowers is fundamentally the same as giving no one them. It doesen't change the power relationships at all.